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Topic: Leon E13 - Need Help Getting Started |
Nate Hofer
From:
Overland Park, Kansas
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Posted 15 Jan 2015 8:14 pm |
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I wanna mess with Leon's E13 tuning. Where can I go for 8-string tab?
I've searched the Forum and there's nothing really I can find yet. (Supposedly Cindy Cashdollar has advise in an old post somewhere.)
Anyway, I play C6/A7 lap and E9 pedals reasonably well but E13 seems pretty different with the high E and F# in the middle.
Any help getting up and running with overall approaches and tab would be of help. |
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Nate Hofer
From:
Overland Park, Kansas
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J Fletcher
From:
London,Ont,Canada
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Posted 16 Jan 2015 5:26 am
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Hi Nate
I too have tried Leon's E13 tuning and had a hard time getting anywhere with it. Seems like it is a good tuning for chords, 7ths, 9ths, 13's, #9's for example, but single note stuff is way easier with C6, or in my case B6. Last summer I sold my T8, which had the E13 on it, so for now I have put E13 aside, and am concentrating on the B6 tuning.
Wish there was some good instructional material for this E13 tuning, lots of people have it on their guitars. Good luck with it, Jerry. |
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Nate Hofer
From:
Overland Park, Kansas
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Posted 16 Jan 2015 5:35 am
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| It's interesting to me that in my search I have found various other forum members asking for the same help. I find it hard to believe there's a gap in Leon E 13 tab! |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 16 Jan 2015 6:11 am
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Nate, that is a picker's tuning, so it is very right hand intensive. Sometimes I will retune my C13 by raising the lower C (string 6 for me) up to D. It has the same core sound.
x E C# B G# F# D G# E
E C A G E D Bb G
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Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Nate Hofer
From:
Overland Park, Kansas
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Posted 16 Jan 2015 7:04 am
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Thanks, Mike. Picking: Yeah, I see the two clusters of identical intervals (1, 3, 2) on strings 123 and 345 (E, C#, B and B, G#, F#). I can use my C6 knowledge in both places. (Tetra chords, scales, etc.)
And yeah, in terms of chords it's the 2 and the 7 combo that really interest me.
Open question: Why is it called a 13 when there's a 6, 7, and 2?
| Mike Neer wrote: |
Nate, that is a picker's tuning, so it is very right hand intensive. Sometimes I will retune my C13 by raising the lower C (string 6 for me) up to D. It has the same core sound.
x E C# B G# F# D G# E
E C A G E D Bb G |
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Jerome Hawkes
From:
Fayetteville, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 16 Jan 2015 7:19 am
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i havent spent much time with Leon's E13, but after piddling with it for a while, i seem to recall it being a great block chord style tuning - as you would often hear in western swing. also its a complimentary tuning when paired with 1-2 other tunings on a multi-neck. there are just so few necks and too many tunings..
i'm thinking Dick Meis(?) had some instructional stuff with Leon's E13 that i saw once - basic stuff...Bubbles in my Beer kinda tunes... didnt really get "into" the unique character of the tuning IMO, but would serve as a starting point.
i've seen Eddie Rivers with AATW several times up close and he mainly uses it (on a Quad-neck) to vamp behind singer/solos. interesting to note he may only use it for a few bars or by jumping between necks during certain sections - dont think i've seen him play an entire tune on just the E13 (though of course one could do that).
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'65 Sho-Bud D-10 Permanent • '54 Fender Dual-8 • Clinesmith T-8 • '38 Ric Bakelite • '92 Emmons D-10 Legrande II |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 16 Jan 2015 7:23 am
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| Nate Hofer wrote: |
Open question: Why is it called a 13 when there's a 6, 7, and 2?
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The 6 is really the 13, the 2 is really the 9. A full 13th chord = 1 3 5 b7 9 13
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Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Jerome Hawkes
From:
Fayetteville, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 16 Jan 2015 7:24 am
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i think the reason E13 is hard to find instruction on is the non-standardization of the E13 tuning. i recall at one time being so confused by this tuning because everyone had a different version. i counted eight different E13 tunings that were fairly "standard".
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'65 Sho-Bud D-10 Permanent • '54 Fender Dual-8 • Clinesmith T-8 • '38 Ric Bakelite • '92 Emmons D-10 Legrande II |
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Russ Blake
From:
Oregon, USA
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Posted 16 Jan 2015 10:20 am
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| Nate, no need to be discouraged by the lack of written instructional material on the E13 tunings. Leon, Vance, Noel and many others are ready to show us how it's done anytime we are ready to listen. I know this is obvious, but it always helps me to be reminded how lucky we are in this respect. Put on your ears and dig in! |
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Peter den Hartogh
From:
Cape Town, South Africa
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 16 Jan 2015 11:57 am
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Russ Blake knows this tuning probably better than anyone I can think of.
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Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Jerome Hawkes
From:
Fayetteville, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 16 Jan 2015 2:25 pm
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I agree with Russ - the only way to "learn" it is to do what Buddy Emmons mentioned once..."I spent most of my early years wearing a white groove in the middle of a black vinyl record learning solos and turnarounds of my favorite players."
the "problem" with attempting this on steel is...
1) what tuning are they using
2) are they using more than 1 neck during the tune. and what is that 2nd neck so you don't bash your head against a wall in frustration. those players weren't dragging 3 & 4 necks around for the cool look - they were often jumping back and forth during a tune.
if you know what tuning they were using, there are really only so many possibilities of how they did it...its a straight bar and a fixed tuning system.
i asked John Ely once how he determined the tuning when he was transcribing, as i was having a hard time 'hearing the tuning' (which is what i would call the sonic fingerprint) - he said usually there is at least one point in the tune where there is a strum or some chord that is unique to that tuning. its an ear trainer for sure.
one thing i've found after struggling transcribing something is its often the simplest way that is right - if its too contorted or doesn't fit naturally, then its probably not how they did it.
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'65 Sho-Bud D-10 Permanent • '54 Fender Dual-8 • Clinesmith T-8 • '38 Ric Bakelite • '92 Emmons D-10 Legrande II |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 17 Jan 2015 8:46 am
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| Jerome Hawkes wrote: |
one thing i've found after struggling transcribing something is its often the simplest way that is right - if its too contorted or doesn't fit naturally, then its probably not how they did it. |
That is somewhat of a slippery slope, because a lot of stuff is just not that easy, period. You have to have your own lines of sight with regard to the neck/tuning. I spend a lot of time doing this and if you've seen some of the crap I've posted, like Slantzilla, it doesn't make a lot of sense to others, but I have found things that do to me. This holds true for a lot of players. You really don't want to get lulled into playing what is convenient. Ears first!
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Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Nate Hofer
From:
Overland Park, Kansas
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Posted 18 Jan 2015 7:53 am
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Okay, thanks everyone. That question was definitely answered! No tab more or less.
So, help me with the next step! And likely better question:
Can you help me start a short list of great Leon E13 tracks? Noel, Leon, Vance? (Russ, I'm looking in your direction!)
I'll assume Panhandle Rag is at the top. |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Stephen Cowell
From:
Round Rock, Texas, USA
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Posted 18 Jan 2015 10:02 am
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Herbie Remington wrote 'Boot Heel'... here's another one off Mike's YT channel that I think is even better... and it's a Leon tune:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiZsbYyWAGo
Tom's ride in the middle is just out of this world.
Catch Leon's version for one that adheres to the 8-string tuning... I can't find it on YT, it's actually known by a different name originally, Blue Guitar Stomp... Tom calls it Blue Steel Blues. You can find the tune on iTunes on Leon's album Tulsa Straight Ahead.
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New FB Page: Lap Steel Licks And Stuff: https://www.facebook.com/groups/195394851800329 |
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J Fletcher
From:
London,Ont,Canada
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Posted 18 Jan 2015 12:14 pm
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Nate, have you checked out John Ely's website?
He has some arrangements listed there using Leon's E13 tuning. |
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Matthew Dawson
From:
Portland Oregon, USA
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Posted 18 Jan 2015 1:52 pm
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| The Billy Jack Wills CDs with Vance Terry have a ton of E13. |
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Todd Clinesmith
From:
Lone Rock Free State Oregon
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Posted 18 Jan 2015 2:21 pm
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Bobby Koefer is another great source for E13 material. This seems to be Bobby's main tuning from what I have deciphered .
An exercise I like to do, is take a song I know or have learned on A6 or C6, and figure out how to play that on the E13 neck. Chord melody, and single string melody, or combo of the 2.
It is a great tuning that keeps on giving ! |
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Dick Chapple Sr
From:
Hardin Montana, USA
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Posted 19 Jan 2015 2:53 pm E 13th
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I just received two books done by Scotty through Mel-bay of Don Helms and Little Roy Wiggins E13th tuning arrangements.
Just tried some of it for the first time last night and it was exciting to hear those high lonesome sounds I remember hearing in the 40's and 50's. |
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Russ Blake
From:
Oregon, USA
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Posted 19 Jan 2015 11:29 pm
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Those are all great suggestions. As Matt said, the Billy Jack Wills discs are just loaded with great E13 stuff. I especially love how he uses it backing up the vocals or the trumpet… So good!
And I'm glad Todd brought up Bobby Koefer. I wish his recordings were more readily available. Todd plays the heck out of this tuning.
Mike, thanks. You are way too kind. Lee's the guy who really knows. He got too good on E13 and had to move up to F. And then there's Jeremy. I better go practice some more.
Anyway… Nate, here are a few clips. Just scratching the surface. Hope these links work, please let me know if not.
Vance Terry w/ Billy Jack Wills: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQSA05qefjY
Bobby Koefer w/ Billy Jack's older brother: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOE4e9YV5Mg
Noel Boggs w/ Hank Penny: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-HvBOeQ0Lc
Noel with a guitar kinda like yours, Nate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANdaxop0QzI |
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Jeff Mead
From:
London, England
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Posted 20 Jan 2015 12:35 am
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Would I be right in thinking the E13 is on the front neck (second part of the solo)? |
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Matthew Dawson
From:
Portland Oregon, USA
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Posted 20 Jan 2015 1:47 am
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Check out Gene Crownover around 7:10 and 13:50 here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qcO19R8Jys
Sounds like the Leon E13 to me. Also great singing from Billy Jack.
Also, on Cadillac Model A it sounds like Vance finishes the opening lick by dropping from a low G to E on the bottom string but I always see the Vance E13 listed as having G# as the low string. ? I guess he could have tuned it down for that song. |
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Jeff Mead
From:
London, England
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Posted 20 Jan 2015 2:54 am
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| Matthew Dawson wrote: |
Check out Gene Crownover around 7:10 and 13:50 here:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qcO19R8Jys
Sounds like the Leon E13 to me. Also great singing from Billy Jack.
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Great clip but obviously not from the 50's as it says in the title (Fender 1000 steel, Jaguar and Jazz bass).
Hard to tell if it is E13 - especially as he has pedals although he might be using them purely to get extra tunings as he's still doing plenty of bar slants. |
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