Mullen, Super Pro Rod Question

Guest · Posted 20 Mar 2004 7:04 pm

I've been fascinated by the various methods different builders use to attach the pull rods to the rod pullers. I'd appreciate anybody willing to comment on the methods used on Mullens and Sho Bud Super Pros.

On the Mullens (judging from the pictures on their website) the rod is held in place by a small clip the goes through a hole in the rod. It strikes me that it would be difficult to create a rod of this type without some special equipment. How do Mullen owners get rods made?

On the Super Pro, I've heard that the rods are held in place by some unusual kind of method, but I haven't seen any pictures or seen a really good description of how it works. Any details and/or photos would be great. Also, on the Super Pro, can the rod pullers be removed from the shaft without removing the shaft?

For what it's worth, the easiest rod/puller combo I've seen is the one used on GFIs. You don't need to bend the rod at all -- just thread one end and cut it the approximate length.

Thanks

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

Stephen,

The part that pull rods are connected to are called "bellcranks". And there are many different types, shapes and sizes. Even the same manufacturer has used different types over the years.

This is a very important part in a pedal Steel guitar. Some of them cannot be removed without removing the crossrod. Others can. On some Sho-Buds and P/P Emmons' this was the case.

You are correct about the hairpin clip on the Mullen pull rod. It is first drilled (I do not know the drill size), then bent. Emmons' LeGrandes cuts a groove at the end of the rod, then bends it at right angles. Then inserts it into a hole in the bellcrank and installs an "E-clip" into the groove.

Some Sho-Buds used an ole "carbuerator" linkage clip to hold their rods in the bellcrank holes.

Also, as you mention, GFI's uses a swivel with setscrew that the pull rod goes thru. This swivel is then held captive in the Bellcrank. Excel now does this also.

So does the new MSA Millenium. The MSA differs in that the the Bell crank has a slotted hole instead of a round hole. I do not care for this method. I had it on my Sierra and it poses IMO, a flaw for players trying to tune at the end plate.

Carter has an open ended slot in their bellcranks. Several other manufacturers use similar.

So again, there are different methods. ALL have their advantages and disadvantages. I have NOT seen one that does not have some cons associated with it.

My personal favorite is the Emmons' 14 hole bellcrank that uses the E-clip. If I was to build PSG's, I would pay to use these. Since I know of NO bellcrank I like as good as this one.

If you look closely you can see the E-clips. Also note the two 4 hole bellcranks. They are not part of the pull rods. They are part of Emmons' counterforce option on LeGrande III's.

The 4 hole AND 14 holers can be installed and removed without removing the crossrods. Just remove the setscrew and pull them right off.

carl

richard burton · From: Britain

The Carter has an excellent system of connecting the rod to the bell-crank. The rod simply hooks over a barrel that is inserted in any of five positions in the bell-crank. The bell-crank is slotted to accept the rod, so once it is assembled, everything is self-retaining. It's simple and very effective, in my opinion.
R B

Guest · Posted 21 Mar 2004 3:55 am

Carl, thanks for your reply. I'll tell you, though, that I've been corrected various times on what to call the bracket that attaches to the cross rod. Some say it's the bell crank. Others say, no, the bellcrank is the part of the cross rod that attaches to the pedal rod and the part that attaches to the pull rod is the rod puller.

With the Emmons, though, if you wanted to make your own rod, how the heck would you cut that slot to accomodate the clip? My guess is that you couldn't unless you had some special equipment. Isn't that a disadvantage for those who want to change their copedant themselves?

I mentioned that the GFI system is the easiest to change that I've seen. It does have one downside, though. If you have two pulls on the same crank next to each other, you have to remove one of them in order to reach the set screw on the other. That's a tiny downside in my opinion, all things considered.

I'd like to mention here that Duane Marrs has a rather unique (I think) approach to connecting the pull rods. His cranks/pullers have a metal wire clip that you unhook to remove the rod and snap back to secure the rod. No tools required and it holds great -- and you can change puller holes in about 30 seconds.

Richard, thanks for your info on the Carters. Is there anybody out there (maybe somebody from Carter) who could post a closeup of how that connection looks? It's hard to tell from the picture on the Carter web site.

John Fabian · From: Mesquite, Texas USA * R.I.P.

Try the link below and then go to the next slide in the slide show to see exactly how Carter Steel Guitars pull rod connections are made.
www.steelguitar.com/support/leverkit/sld014.htm

John Fabian
www.steelguitar.com

Drew Howard · From: 48854

Jerry Fessenden's puller design...

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The Saltines

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

Stephen, you are correct. The 90 on the Mullen rods is difficult to bend and drill. A tension washer can be used to hold the rod or sometimes an adjacent crank will keep the rod from coming out.
When changing set-up, I just cut and rethread if a shorter rod is required. If a longer rod(s) is required, I order from Mullen.
Derby rods are straight and locked using a set screw so you could use varying lengths as long as they don't "crash" into anything.

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

Stephen,

Again there are advantages and disadvantages to every bellcrank out there.
The groove on the Emmons' rods are cut on a lathe. With the proper cutting tool, it only takes a second.

But as you say, for the player this is usually not an option. So how does one get that stupid groove on a new rod? There are several ways. Just recently I had an email from a forumite that sent me a picture of a small pipe cutter he used to groove a rod he was adding to his Emmons.

I had thought of using a pipe cutter but abandoned the idea thinking the cutter would raise the metal around the groove rendering it hard to get into the hole in the bellcrank. According to my email friend, this was not the case.

I use a long piece of two by four with a short piece of 2 by four screwed on at the end. The short piece has a 7/64" hole drilled in it. I then clamp a portable drill laid on its side on the long board.

Then run the rod thru the hole and chuck it into the drill. The position of the drill on the long 2 X 4 places the point where you want the groove to be in line with the outside of the small board.

Then I bought a lathe "groove" cutting tool and hold it in a pair of vice grips. I then turn on the drill, and move the cutting tool down the side of the board until it starts cutting the rod. Then stop when the groove is the right depth. A nail in the short board acts as a fulcrum so the cutting tool does not grab and jerk it downward.

Incidently, the terms are "bellcrank" for the part that the pull rods attach to and "crossbar crank" for the part that the pedal rods connect to.

Most I have talked with use these terms.

carl

[This message was edited by C Dixon on 21 March 2004 at 09:29 AM.]

Roger Crawford · From: Griffin, GA USA

John,
Very interesting. Carter has the best web site available, bar none! See you in Chattanooga.
Roger

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

I agree Roger,

carl

[This message was edited by C Dixon on 21 March 2004 at 11:16 AM.]

Guest · Posted 21 Mar 2004 11:28 am

Thanks, John, those pictures make it perfectly clear. That approach makes rods easy to do -- just bend them at the end. And your website IS the most informative of any pedal steel maker.

I'm still waiting for an answer on the Sho Bud Super Pro, if anybody can help.

Duane Marrs · From: Madison, Tennessee, USA

The Super Pro bellcrank is on a hex shaft. To remove, the cross-shaft bracket has to be taken off. Loosen the setscrew and it slides off of the shaft. The pullrod is held in place with a clip that snaps on the rod after it is put through fastening hole. The clip was similar to one used on Ford brakes and Duane was asked to have them made locally, while working for Sho-Bud and during the proto-typing of this guitar. They seem to hold very well in comparison to an e-clip used by Emmons. The e-clip is notorious for slipping off and I have personally had rods land on my knee while playing. If they had just used a spring-clip it would work better and not require putting a grove in the rod to hold the e-clip. Ron,Sr. had considered going to our slipover clip and we sent him several before his death, and he may use one if he were still alive today. Jeff Surratt
Marrs Shop

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

Guest · Posted 21 Mar 2004 3:04 pm

Jeff, thanks for your informative response. You da' Sho Bud man!

Al Marcus · From: Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)

I am always changing tunings and experimenting. I have had some frustrations with most guitars of one kind or another , with bell cranks or pulling rods.

I liked the Carter setup pretty well and the GFI setup. Even like the MSA setup , which is a lot like the GFI.

On the MSA If you have enough bellcranks so you don't have to remove the crossrods. It's ok.

On both of these you just cut to the length and lock it in.

I think with the GFI , if I remember the screw that holds the bell crank in place is offset so it is not directly under the pull rods. Therefore you need not remove a different pull rod to get at the screw of the bell crank you want to change positions of.
A lot of guitars , when you want to move a bellcranks, you have to take out many rods that are right over the screw just to get at sometimes.
.....................al

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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

Duane Marrs · From: Madison, Tennessee, USA

Sorry if you are angered Mr.Dixon, it is only my opinion. Our shop does a wider variety of repairs probably than anyone and I have owned the Legrande. It is a great guitar. In fact, the bellcrank they now use was designed by Hal Rugg in our shop, so I assure you I'm not shooting off the hip or talking about something I don't of. This puller is much better with more adjustment holes opposed to the collar type. Cordially, Jeff Surratt

Guest · Posted 22 Mar 2004 6:16 am

Hal Rugg designed the Emmons bell crank! Now he has a reason to be famous.

Just kidding. It amazes me the extent to which great steel guitar engineering comes from players themselves.

Jeff Agnew · From: Dallas, TX

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

These are six bellcranks (or "pull bar" as Carter calls them) I found in my spare parts bin. Along with some other items. I tried to find a P/P bellcrank but I must have used or given away all I had.

Clockwise from upper left

1. Show-Bud type 5 hole pot metal bellcrank that fits onto a 5/16" hexagon crossrod. The crossrod must be removed to replace it. The pullrods were bent and then affixed by using a "carbuerator" clip as used on some early automobiles.

2. Excel 4 hole crank. This is used to attach to the pedal rods. It is captive in that the crossrod shaft must be removed to replace. It fits onto a 5/16" hexagon crossrod. A setscrew underneath holds it in place.

3. Excel 5 hole bellcrank for pullrods. It fits onto a 5/16" hexagonal crossrod. It can be removed or installed without removing the crossrod. It uses the GFI type swivel with setscrew to fix to the pull rod. Note: these have been replaced with one just like it, except it has 6 holes presently.

4. 7 hole cast aluminum bellcrank. I have no idea what this one was used on. But I must have repaired a PSG at one time that used it. Just don't recall. It can be installed or removed on its square crossrod without removing the crossrod. Not sure how the pullrod was affixed to the bellcrank.

5. 14 hole Emmons' Bellcrank. IMO, the single greatest improvement to the PSG since its inception. I agree however that the grooving, bending of the rod and those infernal E-clips can be a bear to work with.

These are installed on a 5/16" square crossrod and they can be installed without removing the crossrod. My love for this bellcrank lies in the fact that "timing" of pulls comes the closest to being infinite of any bellcrank (save the Linkon) I have seen.

And IMO, nothing gives that smooth pedal "feel" as does timing of the pulls. Meaning all pulls on a given pedal or knee lever start and stop at the same time.

Also, because of its thinness (front to back of the guitar), it causes undercarriage "clutter" to be much less than most other bellcranks. This is a real blessing when one has a lot of pedals and knee levers.

6. Emmons' 4 hole bellcrank with swivel. These were used in the early years of the LeGrande; until Emmons came out with their 14 holers. 5/16" square crossrod and like the 14 holers, they can be installed without removing the crossrod.

Note: there are a few places where they still use this bellcrank on LeGrandes. IE, RKR half stop, and on their "counterforce" ass'y on LeGrande III's.

carl

Del Mullen · From: Flagler Co. USA

I wanted to add a reply on our pull rods and bellcranks. It has been mentioned but yes our rods are hard to make. They are first cut to length, then bent with the 90 degree angle, then they are plated for no corrosion or rust, then they are drilled for the hair pin clip. They install very easy into the bellcrank and are designed the simple way, to make it very easy to change your setup and or add extra rods. We do sell all the rods, just got to let us know which pedal or knee lever your hooking it to. Hope this helps clerify what we do here at Mullen.

Guest · Posted 31 Mar 2004 3:11 pm

Del, thanks for your response. I certainly didn't want to give the impression that anyone should buy a pedal steel based on how easy it is to change the pull rods. There are way more important things, such as the quality of the instrument, the professionalism of the builder, tone, playability, etc. Mullen pedal steel guitars have earned a reputation for being among the finest steel guitars made and I hope I someday have the opportunity to sit behind one.

Del Mullen · From: Flagler Co. USA

We appreciate the nice comment. We try to build the best guitar we can. We encourage you to give one a try.

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