Sho Bud Pro III D 10 3x2

Aaron Schiff · From: Cedaredge, CO, USA

Saturday I noticed a Sho Bud Pro III in the window of a reputable shop, but one with no steel guitar experience. The surprise for me was that the C-6 neck has no pedals and the front neck is 3 pedals and 2 knees. I've been playing a Gibson Console and a Fender Dual Pro for a couple years now. I have been thinking about a pedal guitar, but the urge isn't REAL strong. The shop owner said he got it from the original owner who just got too old to play anymore (scary thought!). No pedals on the C-6th neck doesn't bother me since I'm not used to pedals anyway. But would it significantly interfer with the re-saleability, if I decided I would rather just stick with my Fender and Gibson? The second thing that caught my attention was the $1000 asking price. I'm sure that is a reflection of the lack of pedals, but that doesn't seem like much for Sho Bud tone and beauty. Would I be throwing money down a rat hole if I bought it? Or do you guys think it might be worth some negotiating?

Marco Schouten · From: Amsterdam, The Netherlands

Even for only use of the E9th neck, with 2 knee levers it seems too limited.
I feel it's not worth $1000.- and would not recommend it to you.
For a little more you can find a 'real' Pro III

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Steelin' Greetings
Marco Schouten
Sho-Bud LLG; Guyatone 6 string lap steel; John Pearse bar; Emmons bar; Evans SE200 amp

[This message was edited by Marco Schouten on 04 April 2004 at 09:03 PM.]

Joerg Hennig · From: Bavaria, Germany

Pro-III´s usually came with four knee levers right away. It sounds like that guitar has been butchered. And yes, it definitely would interfere with the re-saleability. Stay away from that one. Like Marco said, for a little more you can find a "real" Pro-III or, if you just want to try out PSG and like ShoBuds (great), you might also look for a good single neck (Pro-I), those usually sell for a little less than double necks.
By all means, stay away from shops with no steel guitar experience!

Regards, Joe H.

[This message was edited by Joe Henry on 05 April 2004 at 11:15 AM.]

David Doggett · Posted 5 Apr 2004 10:41 am

Aaron, that guitar is not a bad fixer-upper, and at a pretty good price. The E9 neck only needs one more knee lever to be very standard, although most modern players would want one or two more (for a total of 4 or 5).

You can actually play quite a bit of Western Swing and Hawaiian on C6 with no pedals or knees. I have a 12-string universal Emmons push-pull that has 3 pedals (all to the E9 mode) and four knees. One of the knees lowers the Es, which gives a minor in E9 mode, but also gives the B6 mode. One other knee acts like pedal 6 on standard C6. I can play a lot of Western Swing, jazz, blues and rockabilly, and could play Hawaiian if I wanted to. I just approach it like a C6 lap steel, which is a very common instrument for swing and Hawaiian.

If you want to go beyond the vintage sounds, you will eventually want to add more pedals and knees. If you are new to pedal steel, you might not want to try that at home. But there are a number of shops that can add all the pedals and knees you want to that guitar. It will cost you some money. Probably more than it would cost to buy a fully loaded Pro III. The Pro III is considered by many to be the best pedal steel Sho-Bud ever made. You don't see them on the used market too often. Also, by getting the guitar now, and paying for more pedals and knees later, you are stretching the cost out over time and making things easier on your pocket book. But be aware that you will be in for the inconvenience of working on the guitar yourself or paying and waiting on someone else to do it for you. It's a fixer-upper. If you want to hit the ground running on a modern pedal steel, this is not the guitar for you.

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

Aaron---unless this guitar was a rather unusual custom order (which would be real interesting---I would imagine that someone around here or maybe Duane Marrs would have some knowledge of such an order) as has been suggested above, someone has altered this guitar. The most important question is: has anything else been doe to alter it and has it been competently done or has it been butchered. I would suggest that if you are still thinking about this one you absolutely must have someone knowledgeable about PSGs come down and look at it. This guitar is too far outside of standard config to take on too big a leap of faith. Expertise is called for.

ROBERT MYERS · From: HEDGESVILLE, W.VA. USA

Aaron, did you look under the guitar? Are the cross shafts and pull rods still under it? A local player here has a ole Bud and since he doesn't play c6th he took all the pedals off the pedalbar but everthing else is still there, maybe it is the same with that guitar. Check it out

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Bob Myers Derby SD10 3&4
S10 Emmons p/p Nashville 400

Aaron Schiff · From: Cedaredge, CO, USA

I guess I better get it out of the showroom window, turn it upside down and find out what is really under there, and not just what is hanging down under the cabinet. If I decide I'm seriously interested I could probably work out a deal with the shop to take it over the mountains to Dick Meis in Denver and have him look at it.

Buck Dilly · From: Branchville, NJ, USA * R.I.P.

I would think for a little more $ you could get 8 + 4 or better and have something to grow into; Sho Bud or otherwise.

Aaron Schiff · From: Cedaredge, CO, USA

Ok,I looked under the cabinet. There was a 3rd lever folded up. But the hardware appears to be in place for several more pedals and knee levers. Since I only play non-pedal, I've never looked under a pedal guitar before, but it looks like the hardware is there for 8 and 8. From the discoloration of the pedal bar, it appears that 3 pedals are all that has been installed for many years. After seeing how loose the cables were, I can understand why a lot of the modern manufacturers have gone to rods. I think it will take a lot of work, but the shop owner is amenable to my taking it to Dick Meis for a repair estimate.

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

Whoa, hold it right there hoss. This is not a Pro III. In fact I don't believe it is a ShoBud but I'm uncertain about the Fender/ShoBud collaboration models. But you are not going to find cables on a Bud. This guitar is something else, Aaron. You gotta try to post a photo of this and I'll guarantee that this can be ID'd.

Aaron Schiff · From: Cedaredge, CO, USA

Gee Jon, ain't it nice for the uninitiated like me to have guys like you. It sure says "Sho-Bud" and "The Pro III" on the cabinet and it sure looks like a Sho-Bud, but I know a guy who takes Dillon and other Korean knockoffs and puts Gibson Les Paul and 335 labels on them for sale to the unsuspecting. I know that if there is something strange here, the shop owner is also being taken in. I hope he has this on consignment and hasn't sunk his money into it. I'll see if I can get some photos.

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

I'm on thin ice here because I only know what I've read (or what I seem to recall I've read--the ice gets thinner and thinner....) but here are your cable pulled guitars:

---Fender: different enough looking body that it can't really be mistaken for the common wooden box body that pretty much all other steels have.

---ZB: beautiful lacquer wood body with sculpted head and changer-end metal.

---Rusler: a cousin of the ZB, same as above although I don't know if it has the same panache in the metal castings.

Any others predate the common PSG and look considerably different (Gibson, MultiKord) and are not anything that ought to interest you. I seem to recall reading of some small maker steel whose name I can't recall that also had cables--Bobbe Seymour had some info on this--there was nothing in that discussion that made me want to go out and find one.

It would make no sense to me that you are looking at a relabeled ZB or Fender--these names have enough status that there's nothing to hide. Not as many people know the Rusler name. Or this could just be a Frankensomething. I'm way curious.

FWIW--even if you were an enthusiastic tinkerer, I'd recommend a significant understanding of the concepts of PSG mechanics before digging into any of the above options, were you to take on a fixer-upper project.

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[I don't believe in changing this post 'cause it will make stuff below it look weird. Suffice it to say that I am wrong about the ZB & the Rusler and I am trying to find a way to adequately debase myself to atone for this dreadful miscarriage of information. I know. I'll have a beer.
]

[This message was edited by Jon Light on 09 April 2004 at 02:57 PM.]

Dave Van Allen · From: Doylestown, PA , US , Earth

Jon-
ZB's are not cable pull guitars. there are flat pivot levers and rods underneath, but no cables my man...

[This message was edited by Dave Van Allen on 09 April 2004 at 12:19 PM.]

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

Gaaaa! I'm picturing the pivots and transposing a mental image of a Fender pulley. Damn, Aaron, sorry for giving out bad info.

Larry Robbins · From: Fort Edward, New York

Ricky Davis...can you help?
Quick...someone turn on the Bat spotlight!!

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Sho-Bud ProII
"there's been an awful murder, down on music row!"

Ricky Davis · From: Bertram, Texas USA

Yeah sure; How can I help???

Aaron Schiff · From: Cedaredge, CO, USA

The cabinet, tuners, headstock, changer and pedals and knee levers all look right to me, considering that I know almost nothing about pedal guitars. It looks like there are sufficient mechanical pulling devices (bellcranks & axles ?) to install several more pedals and levers. I'm wondering if the guy who originally owned it only used 3 and 3, then lost the other pieces and the guy who "fixed it up for sale" added the cables because he didn't want to spend money on real parts? I suspect if I had a couple thousand extra laying around Ricky could really produce a work of art. It is really a gorgeous black cabinet.

Ricky Davis · From: Bertram, Texas USA

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