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Topic: Harmonizing correctly on Lap Steel. |
Dom Franco
From:
Beaverton, OR, 97007
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Posted 30 Dec 2014 5:41 pm |
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I know my tuning (A6th) pretty well.
So I can just about play any melody by ear using single notes, even if I have never played the song before.
But it is a much greater challenge to harmonize the melody with another note (following the correct chords of course). Simple scale runs and walkups and walkdowns are fairly easy, but when the melody jumps 4 or 5 fret intervals (or more) sometimes I struggle to harmonize the note perfectly, and I end up playing a minor 3rd instead of a major 3rd, or 4th etc.
By the next time that part of the song comes around I can usually nail it, or at least avoid the wrong note.
I play at church on Sundays, and some of the newer worship songs are unfamiliar to me. I am usually the only solo/fill instrument so I often play by the “seat of my pants†but it is a blessing anyway!
Lately I have been just woodshedding lots of songs, and practicing getting it right the first time. Especially on old standards where I hear the chord changes naturally. Whether I slant to get the harmony or switch to another pair of strings, I want the harmonies to be correct.
My goal is to play as naturally as a piano player, using two or 3 note chords with leading melody notes (usually the highest pitch being played) and as simple as that sounds it is very difficult and takes a lot of disciplined practice.
Dom
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https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYG9cvwCPKuXpGofziPNieA/feed?activity_view=3 |
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Deirdre Higgins
From:
Connecticut, USA
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Posted 30 Dec 2014 6:19 pm
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Hi Dom,
My goal is to play in church but I don't know if steel guitar would fit in at my church as they play full gospel contemporary praise music.
I've only been playing a year now and only by myself,I have a hard time playing in front of others if just one person is watching I get nervous and mess up.
I watched the video of you playing at a service very nice Dom
Happy new Year!
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Jerry Byrd Fan |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 30 Dec 2014 6:36 pm
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Dom, that's where it really pays to know all your scales in different intervals on the neck without having to think about it. The best way is to start with 6ths, using strings 1 and 4, 2 and 5, 3 and 6, until it is completely automatic.
| Tab: |
Key of E, C6 tuning
E--0---2---4---5---7---9---11---12-------------------
C----------------------------------------------------
A----------------------------------------------------
G--1---2---4---6---8---9---11---13-------------------
E----------------------------------------------------
C----------------------------------------------------
E----------------------------------------------------
C--3---4---6---8---9----11---13---15-----------------
A----------------------------------------------------
G----------------------------------------------------
E--2---4---5---7---9----11---12---14-----------------
C----------------------------------------------------
E----------------------------------------------------
C----------------------------------------------------
A--0---2---4---6---7---9---11---12---14--------------
G----------------------------------------------------
E----------------------------------------------------
C--1---3---4---6---8---9---11---13---15--------------
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Do this for every scale, major and minor (harmonic and melodic minors, too). Then, learn it in all other intervals, starting with 3rds, then 5ths, etc.
For me, it's almost automatic, but still not quite. A lot of work yet to do, but it is work that has to be done.
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Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Posted 30 Dec 2014 6:45 pm
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Dom, I think practicing harmonized scales would be helpful. Like those walkups you mentioned... expand on them and take them up and down a full octave. That might help with those long bar movements with harmony notes. Try adjacent strings and then wider string grips... 6th and 3rd harmonies in various keys, and play them with chord tracks in different keys. I too make occasional mistakes with the harmony notes, but the more I learn about harmonizing the major scale the fewer "train wrecks" I have. A big part of it is playing "by ear", not necessarily by analyzing the theory of every note on every fret, although that is useful for some players.
(I noticed that Mike just posted something similar as I was composing this)
Deirdre, believe it or not, it's easier to play for a group of people (especially people you don't know) than it is to play for one or two people in a room. 
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My Site / My YouTube Channel
25 Songs C6 Lap Steel / 25 MORE Songs C6 Lap Steel / 16 Songs, C6, A6, B11 / 60 Popular Melodies E9 Pedal Steel |
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Dom Franco
From:
Beaverton, OR, 97007
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Posted 30 Dec 2014 10:06 pm
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The scales help a lot, but there are many accidentals where the melody deviates from the scale, and sometimes the best harmony is a 2nd interval (7th tone) or a flatted 5th (diminished.
It really takes a lifetime of learning to master even a simple 6th tuning. There are tons of variations for partial chords, harmony above the melody or below etc.
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https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYG9cvwCPKuXpGofziPNieA/feed?activity_view=3 |
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Dom Franco
From:
Beaverton, OR, 97007
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 31 Dec 2014 4:50 am
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Dom, I practice scales every day, along with many other very simple things, such as triads arpeggiated in all inversions. It really has opened the door wide for me and I feel like I am steadily moving toward place where I can play all of the ideas that I hear, and many of them are very...let's say "atonal".  But my point is that not only does it benefit my actual playing, but it also has really gotten my ears into shape.
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Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Dom Franco
From:
Beaverton, OR, 97007
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Posted 31 Dec 2014 4:55 am
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Well, I went out to my van at lunch and worked on some harmonies. I am learning new sequences (Geometric patterns of fret positions and strings)to locate the intervals I hear in my head...
Wow it is hard work, two steps forward and one step back. I am not a beginner (I have played professionally for decades) but I feel like I am just starting out because everything I was playing before now was by memorization and muscle memory.
I want to be able to improvise a melody (not one I have previously rehearsed)and to know where to find the right harmony, hear it in my head before I move the bar or pick the strings.
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https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYG9cvwCPKuXpGofziPNieA/feed?activity_view=3 |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 31 Dec 2014 6:13 am
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Dom, I am never beyond learning. I will still take a lesson with a great improviser just to get something new to put to use, and almost always it boils down to the same thing: "learn all your scales at every interval, on all strings."
Even though I don't think diatonically or in terms of chord/scale relationships very much, I will superimpose the scales of other keys on top of the existing harmony in order to create more interesting modern sounds. That is not for everyone, but it just goes to show the importance of that discipline in improvising.
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Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 3 Jan 2015 9:11 pm
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Shame this topic died. I think a lot of players could benefit from it.
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Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Dom Franco
From:
Beaverton, OR, 97007
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Brian McGaughey
From:
Orcas Island, WA USA
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Posted 3 Jan 2015 9:54 pm
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I really relate to your OP Dom when playing dobro. The way my mind looks at this is the melody works it's way through the chords. To me it's relatively easy to play the melody on one or several strings one note at a time, but to harmonize means you need to know where you're going. (Duh!)
Dom, I admire what you're working on. I love working with other musicians who are busy working on their craft. (and dislike working with those who stand still and rest only on what they learned 20 years ago!)
I guess I'm not adding much to this, but I will finish by saying that I think Mike Neer is right, that one must practice these harmonized scales in all keys to a point that what one hears in one's head can be played on the fretboard without hesitation. Wow, that's a lot of practice! If that's not exactly your point Mike I apoligize.  |
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Jerome Hawkes
From:
Fayetteville, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 4 Jan 2015 5:26 am
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i recall John Ely had a pretty good 'system' for harmonizing melody notes on the 6th tunings. he gave a seminar at the non-pedal session at TSGA in Dallas last year that explained it. i might look thru my papers and track it down (or it might be on his site). i found it great solid advice, but i don't really like the choppy sound of jumping all over the neck to get the correct harmony note...just for harmonies sake - the flow and leading is more pleasant/important to me - thats just me though.
the only point i can mention from my own learning is to really get in there and listen for the unique characteristics of all the interval dyads - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyad_(music)
and realize that on the steel there are many points where you just have to take what you can get - you don't have to harmonize every single note - pick the strong melody notes and lead into and out of them with single lines. after studying a lot of great players, they seem to all come to this same conclusion - get it if you can, and don't compromise the flow if you can't
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'65 Sho-Bud D-10 Permanent • '54 Fender Dual-8 • Clinesmith T-8 • '38 Ric Bakelite • '92 Emmons D-10 Legrande II
Last edited by Jerome Hawkes on 4 Jan 2015 5:34 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Dom Franco
From:
Beaverton, OR, 97007
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 4 Jan 2015 5:43 am
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| Doug Beaumier wrote: |
| Deirdre, believe it or not, it's easier to play for a group of people (especially people you don't know) than it is to play for one or two people in a room. |
Yes; they're not looking at you.
Steel is playing a bigger part in praise music these days.
Church is a place to be well received, and that's important.
From one amateur to another (we do it for love), comp the chords, dwell on a note you really like--
folks will be impressed, and they can't even see who's doing it.
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Those that say don't know; those that know don't say.--Buddy Emmons |
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Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
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Posted 4 Jan 2015 6:46 am
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Here are some ideas I got directly from Jim Hall, the great jazz guitarist. Jim was a master of all kinds of harmony, but one technique he used very effectively was using Guide Tones to outline chord changes.
Especially in a band situation, this sparse comping approach can really remove the aural clutter. On the other hand, you can play these on solo steel and clearly hear the chord changes. That's 'cause the third and the 7th are the notes that outline a given chord's character. By targeting the 3rd & 7th only you can play some pretty sophisticated changes in a very small fret area.
In the blues example, it's kind of counterintuitive that you can only drop down 1 fret or go up 1 fret to get the IV and V but it works. And once you get this approach going, you can start to use these positions as the framework for lines and suddenly, you're Barney Kessel! Sigh. Well, not exactly, but you can definitely get some cool ideas.
Here is some tab I did showing this in both a II, V, I progression and a blues:
C6th Guide Tone II, V, I Progression & Blues
http://tinyurl.com/lryfvdq
Here is an audio clip talking about guide tones by Fareed Hacque, a fine Chicago-based jazz player and teacher:
http://tinyurl.com/o4q9dwq
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Steel Guitar Books! Website: www.volkmediabooks.com
Last edited by Andy Volk on 5 Jan 2015 4:35 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Brian McGaughey
From:
Orcas Island, WA USA
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Posted 4 Jan 2015 9:38 am
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| Jerome Hawkes wrote: |
| ...i don't really like the choppy sound of jumping all over the neck to get the correct harmony note...just for harmonies sake - the flow and leading is more pleasant/important to me - thats just me though. |
I agree. This is the point where making good music is an art and not just an exercise in math. Not discounting understanding theory here of course.
Anxious to look at your "guide tones" on lap later today Andy. |
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Dom Franco
From:
Beaverton, OR, 97007
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Posted 4 Jan 2015 5:07 pm
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I am finding a happy medium in my harmony arrangements. In general: I usually start a line with a chord (melody note on top) followed by the melody single notes or harmony and landing on a full chord at the down beat of a measure. (especially on an important chord change when it makes a "statement")
Some songs lend themselves to slower chord soloing, and on faster songs I play more arpeggios and runs.
I will never be done with this study of harmonies, each new song I work on presents a new challenge.
When you are first starting out on an instrument your practice pays off rather quickly since you are improving at a high rate, and you seem to double your knowledge each week.
But after years of playing, each small advancement requires tons of practice (some to un-learn bad habits)and improvement is often more subtle, but real just the same.
_________________
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYG9cvwCPKuXpGofziPNieA/feed?activity_view=3 |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Posted 4 Jan 2015 5:35 pm
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| Quote: |
| I usually start a line with a chord (melody note on top) followed by the melody single notes or harmony and landing on a full chord at the down beat of a measure. (especially on an important chord change when it makes a "statement") |
That's basically what I do. Most importantly, the melody note on top of the voicing, and try to grab whatever harmonies may be available below the melody. Also, as Andy said, pay attention to the chord(s)... For example, if you are playing the melody on string 1 and the chord at that point it a 7th, try to grab the 7b note of that chord on a lower string, or if the chord is a minor, you play the melody on top and try to grab the 3b of that minor chord on a lower string, or the 5th, 3rd of the chord, or whatever is available with slants (or without). So chord theory plays into this too. It becomes fun when you discover that there are a few different harmonies available and you can choose the one you want and create your own arrangement. I always go for the smoothest way, if possible. Lloyd Green said this in regard to his pedal steel arrangements. He said he will work out a song several different ways (using various pedals, levers, string grips, voicings) and he will choose the smoothest way to play it. I guess that's pretty much what we're all going for... smoothness!
_________________
My Site / My YouTube Channel
25 Songs C6 Lap Steel / 25 MORE Songs C6 Lap Steel / 16 Songs, C6, A6, B11 / 60 Popular Melodies E9 Pedal Steel
Last edited by Doug Beaumier on 4 Jan 2015 5:36 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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