A Standard for 10-string E7th?

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

I predict that the Sacred Steel E7th will gain in popularity, but it is lacking a cohesive 10-string standard copedent and beginners instructional material. I outlined the elements of the tuning in an article on my web site.

I've opened this topic to address the issue: what should a "standard" E7th copedent for the S-10 look like? Let's assume 4 pedals and 4 knee levers, and try to keep it simple enough for a "student model" implementation.

------------------

Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax

John Fabian · From: Mesquite, Texas USA * R.I.P.

Let's assume 3 pedals and 4 knee levers!!

This problem is already being worked on by Chuck Campbell and others.

John Fabian
www.steelguitar.com

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

hmmmmm.

What are the open strings tuned to on a "Sacred steel E7th" tuning? I would have to know that before recommending a 4 X 4 copedent for a beginner.

carl

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

Good question, Carl! That's where I'm stuck, too.

Okay, let's say 3+4, or even 3+3. what are the basics?

------------------

Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

Bob a very interesting and lucidly stated page.

Worth some more study for sure.
I would think that a S12 would be very good for this tuning, though most of the needed chords are there now.
My E9 neck is a bit more E7 at the moment, though not this E7.

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 27 March 2004 at 05:54 PM.]

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

Well then, I would propose the following as a starter:






   P1  P2  P3  P4  LKL  LKR  RKL  RKR





D                                   C#


E                    F    D#   F#


B       C#      C#


G#  G       A


E                    F              F#


D               E         D#


B       C#      C#


G#  G       A


E                    F              F#


B       C#      A

P3, P4 and RKR gives A6 all the way across.

LKR and RKR gives a B6 All the way across with "the D on top"

[This message was edited by C Dixon on 27 March 2004 at 07:02 PM.]

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

Here is a slight modification of the above that some may find more appealing






   P1  P2  P3  P4  LKL  LKR  RKL  RKR





G#  G       A


E                    F    D#   F#


D                                   C#


B       C#      C#


G#  G       A


E                    F              F#


D               E         D#


B       C#      C#


G#  G       A


E                    F              F#

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

Well, here are what I see as the two main candidates for the basic tuning of 10 strings:

G#   F#


E    G#


D    E


B    D


G#   B


E    G#


E    E


B    E


G#   B


E    E

I tend to think that a low G# makes the voicings too dense for rhythm, and I like having the high F# for fast leads. I played it for a few months with these pedals:

I gave up because I didn't have enough guitars to keep it, but it did work really well, IMHO.

------------------

Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax

Dan Tyack · From: Olympia, WA USA

I'd add my copedent, but I'd have to shoot you all....

Seriously, I do have a pretty cool hybred, but I am working with Chuck Campbell (who truly is the man) on it before I publish it.....

Hint: I'm only changing the 9th and 10th strings of the standard E9th tuning for this puppy....

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

Dan,
On the standard D10 set up I find the C neck to be much easyer to play those backward roll pentatonic Sacred Steel licks. Are you including some pulls to make up for the awkward gap between the 4th (E) and 5th (B) strings on the E9 ?

Bob

Frank Parish · From: Nashville,Tn. USA

I'm putting together a single neck guitar with 3 pedals and one knee lever. It'll be used for more rock and blues so I'm doing away with the chromatic strings. I'm undecided what to do with the 3rd pedal.
It's just an extended E9 without the 2 top strings.

G#
E
B
G#
F#
E
D
B
G#
E

I could use the PF change for the 3rd pedal
but am open for suggestions. With the added lower G# and E I can use some lower gauges to give it more low tones.

[This message was edited by Frank Parish on 28 March 2004 at 10:45 AM.]

[This message was edited by Frank Parish on 28 March 2004 at 10:46 AM.]

Travis Bernhardt · From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada

I'd vote for one of these two:



F#   F#


G#   D


E    G#


D    E


B    B


G#   G#


E    E


E    E


B    B


E    E

As for the changes, I don't have any ground breaking suggestions. I'd just say that for the upper strings put whatever changes make possible fast pentatonic, dorian and harmonic minor scales (in E9 terms: the E's--or upper D--to D#, AB + D>D#, and A + F respectively).

For the lower strings whatever gives easily accessible common chords, of course, but I'd also want to have some more dissonant bluesy chords available. I always liked having the raise to G on the seventh string, so in this case something like raising the 7th string E to a G (so that with the 8th string E lowered to D you can get a dom7#9 chord with the seventh string G and the 6th string G# right next to each other) might be nice. It would also give you that A7 with AB down.

It occurs to me though, that the above is a very "E9" way of thinking about how to get various scales and chords. Perhaps the Sacred Steel players have a different thought process and would suggest different ways of getting those things...

-Travis

[This message was edited by Travis Bernhardt on 28 March 2004 at 03:26 PM.]

Dustin Rigsby · From: Parts Unknown, Ohio

John Fabian,
I hope you are trying to develop a standard for the Starter Model, I think that may help your sales. The Sacred Steel style is what got me interested in playing steel. I have found a love for E9 along the way.

------------------
D.S. Rigsby
Carter Starter and various six string toys

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

Folks,

I thought this thread was about an open E7th tuning. Why all the F#'s? That makes it an E9th tuning. If you use them, the tuning then more or less reverts back to a standard E9th copedent.

Or, I have I missed something?

carl

Travis Bernhardt · From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada

True, Carl, having the "chromatic" F# as the first string does make it an E9--but only in the sense that having the D# in an E9 tuning makes it an E9addM7 or whatever. Despite the D#, we still call it an E9 tuning, and I would say that the same goes for the F# in the "Sacred Steel" E7.

You make a good point though, that the tuning becomes very E9-like with that F# in there. Another option would be to do it the way that Chuck Campbell does it on the ten string tuning listed on the Carter site:

Ten string tuning

Instead of a high F#, he adds a low B and some interesting changes. I don't know how you're reduce that copedant to 3+4, though.

I can't wait to see what Chuck and co. come up with.

-Travis

Wayne Cox · From: Chatham, Louisiana, USA * R.I.P.

Even though I favor E-13,I'll put in my 2 cents worth. First,start really basic. What range do you want? How about little E to big E,like a standard guitar(that's a tried and true useful range). Next its got to have some 3rds,fifths,& sevenths. Now add the doubled Es in the middle for the rhythm effect. Pull one of the middle Es to F# for speed and denser chords (with a knee lever),and raise the high D to D# for Maj7 (another knee). Now install an Eb lever and two pedals for the e to A chord change (like E9) and one vertical lever for a seventh in the IV chord w/o moving your bar. Thare's the meat,everything else is just gravy.
~~W.C.~~

Al Marcus · From: Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)

it looks to me like Bobby Lee's is pretty close to what they are looking for.

F#-G#-E-D-B-G#-E-E-B-E

But I would make the 4th string C# and pull it up to a D when I want it....al

------------------
My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

Forum Index > Pedal Steel		Next oldest topic :: Next newest topic

All times are GMT - 8 Hours	Jump to: