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Topic: How to remove LKL cross-shaft on an Emmons LGII. |
Tommy Everette
From:
Whitakers, NC
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Posted 30 Dec 2014 2:07 pm |
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Removing keyheads to repaint them and to replace old tuners. Screws are under the LKL cross-shaft.
I've gotten all the tools necessary and the info from the experienced.
(Thanks Mr. Roller & Mr. Stafford)
Pictures added of the process so others can see the steps.
Tools required:
Dremel w/flex shaft and large diameter cutoff disc.
Phillips & Flathead screwdrivers.
Putty knife.
New dowel pin.
First remove the knee lever and the stops.
Use a large diameter dremel cutting wheel to cut through the old dowel pin.
Remove the old (damaged) screws.
Clean and polish while you can
New dowel pin easy to install. Just use a flat piece of metal like a paint scraper or putty knife to aid in sliding the rod back into the bushing in the rear apron.
Replaced the Phillips screws with bolts and washers for easier future removal
Last edited by Tommy Everette on 16 Jan 2015 11:58 am; edited 8 times in total |
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Dave Diehl
From:
Mechanicsville, MD, USA
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Posted 30 Dec 2014 3:20 pm
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| Tommy, the LeGrande cross rods were not designed to be removed. Most just cut them and then replace them with a new one when done. The front side of the shaft is a necked down part of the shaft that slips into the from hole and there is a dowel pin and spring on the rear apron end that hold them in place. There was a recent (last week) post regarding the same question and there are some possible workarounds you can try without cutting the rod. Might contact Lynn Stafford... he's recommended one of these methods in the past. |
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Jerry Roller
From:
Van Buren, Arkansas USA
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Posted 30 Dec 2014 3:22 pm
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Tommy, I don't think you have to remove the keyheads to change the tuning keys. Will they not come off when you loosen the barrel nuts? You would most likely have to cut the cross shaft to remove it. The rear apron end of the shaft has a hole into the end of it with a spring loaded dowel in it. It is close to impossible to push the dowel against the spring enough to remove the shaft.
Jerry
_________________
http://www.littleoprey.org/ |
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Tommy Everette
From:
Whitakers, NC
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Posted 30 Dec 2014 3:32 pm
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I found the other post.
Dang! |
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Dave Diehl
From:
Mechanicsville, MD, USA
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Posted 30 Dec 2014 3:42 pm
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| Yea, plans were to change the design because it was recognized that was a problem but it never materialized. |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 30 Dec 2014 3:43 pm
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why dang? they just told you to pull the tuners off with the headstock in place. isn't that easier?
you should probably replace them with tuners that fit the same hole. |
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Tommy Everette
From:
Whitakers, NC
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Posted 30 Dec 2014 3:49 pm
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| I was told the first string tuner couldn't be changed without removing the key head. |
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Jerry Roller
From:
Van Buren, Arkansas USA
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Posted 30 Dec 2014 5:14 pm
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Remove the screw that holds the button on the first string on C6th and take the button off. Then you should be able to remove the 10th string key from the E9th. I am sure you can change the keys without removing the keyheads. I would definitely find a way to change them without cutting the cross shaft. Is your E9 10th key and or 1st C6th key bad? If not, maybe replace the rest of the keys. If the keyhead must be removed make a tool to turn the screws under the cross shaft such as a very short Phillips bit and a wrench to turn it.
Jerry
_________________
http://www.littleoprey.org/ |
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Tommy Everette
From:
Whitakers, NC
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Posted 30 Dec 2014 5:30 pm
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| Jerry Roller wrote: |
Remove the screw that holds the button on the first string on C6th and take the button off. Then you should be able to remove the 10th string key from the E9th. I am sure you can change the keys without removing the keyheads. I would definitely find a way to change them without cutting the cross shaft. Is your E9 10th key and or 1st C6th key bad? If not, maybe replace the rest of the keys. If the keyhead must be removed make a tool to turn the screws under the cross shaft such as a very short Phillips bit and a wrench to turn it.
Jerry |
A previous owner has damaged one of the screws on the c6 key head and it needs replacing. I also planned on installing new tuners throughout since some were loose and wouldn't tighten. |
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Jerry Roller
From:
Van Buren, Arkansas USA
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Posted 30 Dec 2014 5:46 pm
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Tommy, the cross shaft costs about $17.00. If you want it removed, you can use a dremel tool and cut the shaft. I would suggest you cut it close to one end so it can have a new round end machined on it and reused with an "L" bracket. I can furnish you with a new cross shaft and take the cut one on trade.
Jerry
_________________
http://www.littleoprey.org/ |
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 30 Dec 2014 6:27 pm
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I have a low profile right angle screw driver that gets into places where a straight screwdriver cannot.
Can't recall where i bought it, but its proof they exist...might be something to look into. |
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Jerry Roller
From:
Van Buren, Arkansas USA
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Posted 30 Dec 2014 9:08 pm
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Tom, if he wants to replace that damaged screw I don't think he can get it out without removing the cross shaft. When he said he wants to replace that screw my thinking changed.
Jerry
_________________
http://www.littleoprey.org/ |
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Tommy Everette
From:
Whitakers, NC
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Posted 1 Jan 2015 9:23 am
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EDITED
Last edited by Tommy Everette on 2 Jan 2015 7:04 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Spicewood TX 78669
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Posted 1 Jan 2015 11:14 am
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For the life of me, I can't believe that Emmons or any company would build a guitar that made it impossible to remove a cross shaft without destroying the part.
The King Pyrrhus School of Engineering, I guess. 
Sorry for your troubles with the guitar, Tommy. Jerry Roller will help you out, he's top shelf.
_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 1 Jan 2015 11:29 am
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| Dave Diehl wrote: |
| ...the LeGrande cross rods were not designed to be removed. Most just cut them and then replace them with a new one when done. |
Yesiree, now there's some real genius design for 'ya!
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Lynn Stafford
From:
Ridgefield, WA USA
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Posted 1 Jan 2015 12:22 pm Emmons Cross Bar Removal
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| Herb Steiner wrote: |
| For the life of me, I can't believe that Emmons or any company would build a guitar that made it impossible to remove a cross shaft without destroying the part. |
I'll admit that it's not the best design in the world but it is what it is. I guess they must have felt that removal of those cross bars would not be very necessary by the average player.
However, I've been able to remove that particular lever cross bar on several different Emmons LeGrande guitars (without destroying it) by using a Dremel tool. I attach the flex extension (with a smaller head than the tool itself) to the motor and attach a cutoff wheel to it. After I remove the stop blocks from the rear apron for some clearance for the wheel, I can then use it to sever the dowel pin and remove the cross bar in about 30 seconds. There is just enough clearance between the end of the cross bar and the flange bushing that's pressed into the apron to do this. Another replacement 3/16" dia. x 7/8" long dowel pin can be purchased at just about any good hardware store. Once you're finished with the task at hand, you can just apply some grease on the new pin, insert it into the cross bar and reinstall it back in the guitar.
_________________
Best regards,
Lynn Stafford
STEEL GUITAR WEST
http://www.steelguitarwest.com
Steel Guitar Technician (Restoration, Set-up, Service and Repair work)
Previous Emmons Authorized Dealer & Service Technician (original factory is now closed)
ZumSteel Authorized Service Technician
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 1 Jan 2015 1:25 pm
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it's a bad design! my first 'good' steel was a 67ish s10 p/p. it became immediately apparent that the design allowed for the user to change things around the way they wanted. so i did. pedalsteel has always been open to personal style, experimentation and adjustment, unlike having 88 keys that are chiseled in stone.
it is constantly evolving, and probably always will.
this crossrod problem is a step backward that most likely was developed by a company looking to cut cost before they ran themselves into the ground financially. |
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Tommy Everette
From:
Whitakers, NC
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Posted 1 Jan 2015 1:45 pm Re: Emmons Cross Bar Removal
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[/quote]
by using a Dremel tool. I attach the flex extension (with a smaller head than the tool itself) to the motor and attach a cutoff wheel to it. After I remove the stop blocks from the rear apron for some clearance for the wheel, I can then use it to sever the dowel pin and remove the cross bar in about 30 seconds. There is just enough clearance between the end of the cross bar and the flange bushing that's pressed into the apron to do this.[/quote]
I'll give that a try before I cut the shaft.
Last edited by Tommy Everette on 1 Jan 2015 5:04 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Spicewood TX 78669
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Posted 1 Jan 2015 2:42 pm
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BTW, if you can't get one out, how can you get one IN?
I'm sure that part of it involves holding your mouth right. 
_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
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Tony Glassman
From:
The Great Northwest
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Posted 1 Jan 2015 4:10 pm
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| Herb Steiner wrote: |
BTW, if you can't get one out, how can you get one IN?
I'm sure that part of it involves holding your mouth right. |
I think the pin is spring-loaded.
Easy to install. (Compress the pin and position the x-shaft in place, then let go of the pin.)
Tough to remove...........It's sure not a very user-friendly design. |
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Lynn Stafford
From:
Ridgefield, WA USA
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Posted 1 Jan 2015 4:17 pm
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| Tony Glassman wrote: |
| Herb Steiner wrote: |
BTW, if you can't get one out, how can you get one IN?
I'm sure that part of it involves holding your mouth right. |
I think the pin is spring-loaded.
Easy to install. (Compress the pin and position the x-shaft in place, then let go of the pin.)
Tough to remove...........It's sure not a very user-friendly design. |
Exactly, Tony! But as Herb said, I also have to hold my mouth right as I use a flat blade screw driver to compress the spring-loaded pin while sliding everything in place...
Tommy, It was good talking with you on the phone earlier. I'm mailing you a new dowel pin tomorrow!
_________________
Best regards,
Lynn Stafford
STEEL GUITAR WEST
http://www.steelguitarwest.com
Steel Guitar Technician (Restoration, Set-up, Service and Repair work)
Previous Emmons Authorized Dealer & Service Technician (original factory is now closed)
ZumSteel Authorized Service Technician
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Tommy Everette
From:
Whitakers, NC
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Posted 16 Jan 2015 11:57 am
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| Pics added |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 16 Jan 2015 12:11 pm
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" unlike having 88 keys that are chiseled in stone. "
Oscar Peterson's piano had 97 keys.
JB
Add: Performance cross shafts were built in a similar manner. I saw Jerry remove one once. If I recall correctly, he used two thin awls to work the pin back. And it wasn't easy! |
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Willie Sims
From:
PADUCAH, KY, USA
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Posted 19 Jan 2015 9:05 am
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| Try drilling a small hole in the spring loaded pin as close to the rear of the guitar as you can. Then put something like a ice pick in the hole and compress the pin. Never tried it but it might work. Willie SIMS. |
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Jerry Roller
From:
Van Buren, Arkansas USA
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Posted 19 Jan 2015 10:45 am
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Rains used the same technique with the spring loaded dowel into the rear apron bushing but had the brilliant idea to machine a very narrow slot into the cross shaft which exposes the spring and dowel. You can access the spring and collapse it with a pointed tool to remove the shaft.
_________________
http://www.littleoprey.org/ |
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