2nd string 1/2 tone lower E9

richard burton · From: Britain

I drop the 2nd string a full tone with RKR. I also drop the 9th string a half tone, and use this as a weak half-stop. I don't care for a more positive half-stop, as it becomes too hard to push the lever. However, I do need an accurate half tone lower on the 2nd string. I have tried a vertical right knee lever to drop the 2nd a half tone, but it is affecting my use of the volume pedal. I need to either add another knee lever or pedal. I want to keep the current RKR setup .(I play a SD 10 with 3+5). Any suggestions?
Thanks in advance, R B.

Bob Carlucci · From: Candor, New York, USA

RB... I don't see why the half stop should be "weak".. I have used the 9th string as my half stop forever. I think any guitar can be set up for a little more positive feel on that half stop. Its only my opinion,but I think it would be a waste of a knee lever to add a second half tone pull on the second string. I would get that stop set up better..... bob

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

Jeff Newman says, "A half stop is not a good idea." I agree with him. Never liked it from day one. Tried it for 40yrs! While I could find that half stop sometimes, other times I would over or undershoot it.

So when I ordered my U-12 I had them make RKR simply lower the second string a whole tone with NO half-stop. Then I had them install a 2nd LKL and on that I lower the 2nd string a half a tone.

I cannot begin to tell you how much I love it. In fact I realize now, I was often hesitant to use the half stop before because of the above anamoly. Not now. I would never go back to a half stop.

But there are those who apparently have NO problem at all with them. I say to each his own.

carl

Al Marcus · From: Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)

Carl has got it right as usual. That is the way to go. If I remember not only Jeff Newman didn't care for half stops, but Reece told me that too.......al

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Nicholas Dedring · From: Beacon, New York, USA

Could you try and step up the return spring tension on the 9th string? I have the same poor man's half stop on the 2nd string... I am okay with it, and I would suggest that you could either get a half stop tuner and set it pretty soft, to add tension, or step up the 9th string tension on the changer...

John Bechtel · From: Nashville, Tennessee, R.I.P.

My Franklin has the RKR lowering the 2nd. (1)-Tone and the 9th. (½)-Tone. But, I do have the (½)-stop adjustment on the 2nd. string, and it's very comfortable and useable for me, because the Franklin (½)-stop has an adjustable tension-spring on it. If you can't feel the (½)-stop you simply adjust the collar on the tension-spring until you can feel it! There are no impossible senerios with a Franklin PSG! JMHO

And Dats Dah Troof!

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“Big John” Bechtel
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Fender ’49–’50 T–8 Custom
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http://community.webtv.net/KeoniNui/BigJohnBechtels

clive swindell · From: Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK

Hi Richard

I had the same problem so on my new Carter, I have had the whole tone lower put on my LKR - with my D lever that lowers the Es. Stll trying to decide if I like it or not.

I have a new Mullen coming in June and on that, I have decided to try a more positive 1/2 stop on RKR - it costs an extra $45.

Jeff Newman says that the only other alternative is an extra knee lever - but where?

Duane Marrs · From: Madison, Tennessee, USA

Richard, before you do anything drastic, try adjusting your second string return spring. We have found tightening this helps a lot, for a better feel. You might take it off and clip a little off and re-shape the sping at the end. It shouldn't make it really any harder to push. Even then they are hard to hit sometimes, but certain fills do require the half then whole tone drop. For example, Lloyd Green used it on his version of "steelguitar rag" years ago and it is a cool sound. Good luck.

richard burton · From: Britain

Thanks for all the inputs fellow forumites. I used to have my Emmons PP set up with a more positive half-stop, using the mechanism of the 2nd string finger and the 9th finger, for many years. However, even with a more positive feel, I would still miss the note more often than not. So I thought, why have all the hassle of a hard to push knee lever if it doesn't work anyway? So I relaxed all the springs and got pretty good at guessing the semi tone drop. This was when I was gigging very regularly. Nowadays, due to illness, I don't gig at all, and my playing skills are deteriorating alarmingly. The lack of a gigging environment is definately bad for a players ability. (And the time I spend on the forum doesn't help either!!)
I have also used the time to upgrade my steels, bring them into the 21'st century etc, which is why I posed the question on the 2nd string half-tone drop.
Carl, can you tell me more about your LKL2 please? (Location etc).
Clive, I'm not sure about putting it on my D lever, I'll have to give it some thought.
Thanks, R B

richard burton · From: Britain

Clive,
I've just sat down at the steel, and realised that if I have your Carter configuration I won't have the unison strings to play the 'Look at us' solo.
Those lowers need to be on separate levers.
R B

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

Richard,

check the following out:

 


      (5 7  (1) (2)    (LOK)     (2) (1)


   A B 3 4 5  LKL LKL LKV LKR RKL  RKR RKR  


                         


F#     F                       G#


D#         E       D      (C#) E        C#


G#   A


E              F           Eb       F


B  C#    C#            Bb  


G#   A   A#                    F#


F#     F


E              F           Eb       D


B  C#      C       D                    C#


G#   A             B           F#


E      F   D#  F


B      C#  G#                           A

Note knee levers (2) are inner levers forward of the regular (1) LKL and RKR levers. Also, note that RKR2 is normally pedal 6 on a D-10. Standard universals would locate these changes next to my pedals 3 and 4.

I chose to move it to a knee lever because it is used with every single pedal and several of the knee levers; PLUS it moves the 5th and 7th pedals (D-10) next door to each other. Something I have maintained should have always been.

Finally, I have a 6th pedal that I grab with my right foot. It raises 4 a whole tone. When engaged and A and B are down, it gives me the equivalent of B and C. The chart would not let me include this pedal without messing up the chart for some reason.

You might ask why I did not add a C pedal between my pedals 2 and 3 and move 3, 4 and 5 to the right. Ok, the answer is I wanted to have the change on the B pedal and the change on my 3rd pedal together at times.

Buddy uses these changes on his D-10. So by moving the C pedal to pedal 6 and moving 5 next to B, it accomplished this on the universal.

What I particularly love about NO half-stop and yet a positive D and C# note is I can go to the D from either direction. In addition I can have the D on the 2nd string AND the 9th string; OR the C# on the 2nd string and the D note on the 9th string. And there are times I need one or the other or both.

carl

[This message was edited by C Dixon on 29 March 2004 at 03:23 PM.]

[This message was edited by C Dixon on 29 March 2004 at 07:43 PM.]

Paul Brainard · From: Portland OR

I've always felt that what I needed to make a 1/2-stop work was not so much the right amount of extra tension but rather a little range of "forgiveness" in the travel of the lever, so I didn't have to stop & hold it at a precise point. I have imagined that maybe some kind of dual-cam (like on a carburetor) or knuckle joint with an adjustable slop-factor might do this. Has anyone tried such a thing?

clive swindell · From: Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK

Richard

How are you playing 'Look at Us'? I tried it last evening and neither Jeff Newman's tab or John Hughey's tab uses the 2nd string.

richard burton · From: Britain

Clive, I worked the solo out myself, by ear. It may well be picked on other strings to get the same notes, but there are many ways to skin a cat !!
I don't know how to put tab on the forum, it's way beyond my computer skills. However, I use the 2'nd string at the very beginning of the solo.
Fret 4. Lower 4th string using knee lever. Pick 4th string. Allow 4th to sustain whilst picking 2nd string. Now let the 4th string knee lever back up at the same time as dropping the 2nd string a full tone with RKR. Now press C pedal and pick strings 4 and 1, let strings ring as you release C pedal and lower string 4 again with knee lever.
Can somebody put this into tab, I've only covered the first 3 seconds of the solo, and already used 1/2 page !!

Reggie Duncan · From: Mississippi

I begin the "Look At Us" turn on #2 and #4 with the E's lowered, too.
I play the Day setup and my right knee levers are reversed from most everyone. I lower #2 a whole tone with RKL. I lower it 1/2 tone on my LKV.

richard burton · From: Britain

I have fitted a wrist/forearm lever to the Emmons, to lower the 2nd a half-tone. However, I have to agree with Bob C that it is a bit of a waste of a lever. Any suggestions as to other uses for the lever, folks?
Thanks, R B

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

I've tried the half-stop on several brands on guitars, and could never adjust to it. For about 15 years I tuned my 2nd string to D with separate levers to raise and lower it. That's not a solution I'd recommend - we learn from our mistakes.

Today I still have two levers. The lower to D also raises the 7th string F# to G, ala Tommy White. These changes work well together, by the way.

My other lever lowers D# to C#, and also lowers the 9th string D to C#. The difference from "standard" is that there is no half-step feel stop - both strings move together smoothly.

In my view, I haven't "wasted" a knee lever. I've added the half step lower to another change (7th string raise) that I use frequently, with no undesirable side effects.

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