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Topic: Double duty knee lever |
Bill C. Buntin
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Posted 20 Dec 2014 5:22 am |
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I know this has been done. Difficult to find archi es. Your opinions;
D10 players-who would use a standard E9 LKR reverse lever configured to pull fwd on c6 functioning as a C6 LKL
A two in one lever- I think it's been done and discussed.
Comments? Ideas? Opinions? |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 20 Dec 2014 5:57 am
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Huge pain to engineer, and then it'd have to fold forward to case the guitar.
It's not common because it's not practical.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Dick Sexton
From:
Greenville, Ohio
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Posted 20 Dec 2014 7:05 am Hummm!
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Bill, I think I saw something like that on a Fulawka. Now that's one fellow that believes in, "Engineering Difficulties be Damned".
I've thought I'd like to have my vertical lever do an "or", either the 5th string 1/2 tone lower with a split or the 6th string whole tone lower with a split. Nothing more then a problem to be solved.
I say go for it. I like Lane and even bought him dinner once, he is a wealth of information. But on this one, I think he's a little off. Progressive thinking got us to the moon, it can get your steel to do exactly what you want it to do. |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 20 Dec 2014 7:13 am
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I'm with Lane on this one. It may be doable BUT.
My RKL and RKR work on both the E9th and C6th. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 20 Dec 2014 7:31 am
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Dick, it still needs two shafts, since one needs reversing. I've no doubt Ed would do it to show it can be done. I still think most builders would do two levers one in front of the other.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Dick Sexton
From:
Greenville, Ohio
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Posted 20 Dec 2014 7:49 am Completely understand
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Lane I completely understand yours and Jack's points. And I think Bill is getting what he asked for. Comments? Ideas? Opinions?
By the way, Merry Christmas to you all! Hope you have a steelin good New Year...  |
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John Swain
From:
Winchester, Va
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Posted 20 Dec 2014 8:45 am
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| In 1975 John Babirad modified my LKR on my D10 Emmons to also pull a cross-shaft on the C6 when pushing it to the left. It was an elegantly simple device to keep the knee lever from folding over. I can explain in full if there's interest. |
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Bill C. Buntin
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Posted 20 Dec 2014 10:39 am
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| Yes. Opinions and comments. Pros and cons |
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Bill C. Buntin
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Posted 21 Dec 2014 3:27 am Please Splain
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John, yes I would like to hear a description of the device. I have two different thoughts on this. As I mentioned, I want to avoid having to take the lever off to case the guitar, like I had on the Dekley.
Lane is spot on. It is difficult to engineer the thing, but if you are already cramped for space in that area under body, this can keep you from having to punch more holes in the cabinet top. |
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Steve Hitsman
From:
Waterloo, IL
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Posted 21 Dec 2014 5:26 am
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| Seems to me that Excel does that. I'm sure it was incorporated on that monster that Mitsuo built for Buddy Cage. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 21 Dec 2014 8:00 am
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| The right knee levers on my guitars work on both necks. But the left knee levers are discrete, meaning I have separate left knee levers for each neck. This allowed me to place the levers where they work best (read: most comfortably) with the floor pedals for that neck. I decided early on that, for me, having maximum comfort and playing ease were more important than having a maximum nember of changes. |
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Tony Glassman
From:
The Great Northwest
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Posted 21 Dec 2014 9:06 am
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| Donny Hinson wrote: |
| The right knee levers on my guitars work on both necks. But the left knee levers are discrete, meaning I have separate left knee levers for each neck. This allowed me to place the levers where they work best (read: most comfortably) with the floor pedals for that neck. I decided early on that, for me, having maximum comfort and playing ease were more important than having a maximum nember of changes. |
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Stephen Gambrell
From:
Over there
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Posted 21 Dec 2014 12:23 pm
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| I had a LaGrande, and either Charles Reece or Mac Atchison put a pin, or a latch, on LKR. When you wanted it, it was there. I can't remember the pulls, but it was a cool add-on. |
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Lee Holeman
From:
San Benito, Texas, USA
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Posted 21 Dec 2014 2:23 pm Knee Lever
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| Yea I have one on my new Excel U-12. Fantastic (once you get used to it. Mitsuo is a genius! |
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Larry Moore
From:
Hampton, Ga. USA
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Posted 25 Dec 2014 8:12 pm Double action lever
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I have a 2001 LeGrande II that has that Double Lever.
Mine was modified by Mac Atcherson, It has worked for me for 10+ years.
What is does is....
It lowers the E's (4th & 8th strings) LKR on E-9 neck
then LKL it is the same as the standard 8th pedal on C-6 neck
lowers 10th, & 9th, & raises 7th string
I added later the 1st string raise to the pull
The lever has a spring loaded clip to allow it to be locked in the folded down position & and then for easy folding up in the case.
Larry  |
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Bill C. Buntin
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Posted 26 Dec 2014 3:31 pm
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Spring loaded clip is one of my ideas about folding the lever.
I've actually got mine working pretty well, or functioning as I intended. On the E9 it lowers 4 and 8. On the C6, It raises the A notes to Bb, but I'm thinking about putting the inverted pedal 6 on it. |
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Larry Moore
From:
Hampton, Ga. USA
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Posted 26 Dec 2014 4:39 pm Double Knee lever
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I have the same thing on my PP. But I have two levers one for the E lowers.
The other one is the 8th pedal moves on a knee lever
Much easer to play C6 songs without using both feet just move from the lever the to the 5 pedal.
Larry |
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Bill C. Buntin
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Posted 4 Jan 2015 6:51 am
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Well, I built two different versions, installed each one and tried them. Once adjusted properly it worked as expected, however, as Lane pointed out, major pain to engineer and get it right.
I can see it as practical, only in a case where one does not have the real estate underneath for a dedicated LKL for C6.
It worked, but, my efforts in building each one were not as rewarding as I thought they might be.
But....now I have a new spare knee lever I can put somewhere else!! |
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steve takacs
From:
beijing, china via pittsburgh (deceased)
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Posted 5 Jan 2015 6:05 pm Success
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Bill good for you for taking on the challenge and pulling it off. Sounds like the endeavor was more successful than you would lead us to believe.
If the lever does what it is supposed to do and and is easy to engage, that sounds like a success. stevet |
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Bill C. Buntin
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Posted 6 Jan 2015 2:39 am
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Steve, I would call it a success. It came down to adding a piece of 1/8 rod on the upper side of the pivot of the E9 LKR, aside from moving bell cranks around and such, it was a lot of just tweaking.
But then I built one at work using some aluminum stock on our little bridgeport wanna be Jet Mill. Surprisingly enough it looks very close to some of the original pieces.
When I get the chance I think I will install it as a dedicated c6 LKL, which was what I was after with the double duty idea. Only for me, the center levers on ANY guitar don't ever seem to be in the right spots.
On this EMCI, This LKR lever on the C6 is a really nicely placed one for my taste. So this new one, I think is gonna go about 1 inch toward the pick up end from the LKR E9 lever, and a bit more forward. there is a lot of open space in that area.
I've made some adjustable screws for the flags, which can make it more comfortable.
Thanks for the encouraging words.
~Bill |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 6 Jan 2015 11:24 am
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For right-moving knees, the Zumsteel lever can go ANYWHERE. There's a transverse link built into it.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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