A Beginner's Stumbling Block--Or Is It Just Me?

Larry Carlson · From: My Computer

Ok, I know this is a rather naive question/observation, but I am new at this so I have an excuse.

I have played acoustic 6 string for years. I'm not horribly good at it but I do ok.
I have noticed one thing that is handicapping me in starting out on lap steel.
I have to watch the frets at all times. I look away from my left hand and I get lost immediately.
Playing acoustic 6 string I can look at the sheet music, talk to you, watch tv, do anything but watch my left hand.

Is the need to watch your left hand/bar at all times a normal stumbling block in beginning steel?
When learning a new song/exercise it is almost like I have to memorize it before I can play it. But I can't play a song until I memorize it.
So I am stumbling along learning 2 to 4 measures at a time and trying my best to memorize everything along the way.
I assume I will get better at looking at the music and my left hand at the same time as time goes on.

I know it is an odd question, but it never dawned on me that I wouldn't be able look at my music and be at the right spot with the tone bar at the same time. For me it is making learning a bit more difficult. I hope it gets a easier for me to memorize things a bit better than I have in the past.

Ok, my whiney little post is over. It's been bugging me for the 2 months I have been switching over to steel and I just thought I would complain about it. I know how much everyone likes a complainer.
I don't expect any sympathy however a monetary donation would be appreciated............. Very Happy

_________________
I have stuff.
I try to make music with it.
Sometimes it works.
Sometimes it doesn't.
But I keep on trying.

John Booth · From: Columbus Ohio, USA

Brother, most of us, no matter how experienced, look at the neck most of the time.
_________________
Jb in Ohio
..................................
GFI S10 Ultra, Telecaster, a Hound Dog, and an Annoyed Wife
..................................

Mike Spieth · From: Santa Fe, New Mexico

Just be happy you are not learning the violin!

Larry Carlson · From: My Computer

Stan Paxton · Posted 13 Nov 2014 5:31 pm

I'm not a terribly good player, but have noticed that most all steel players have to watch the fret markers most of the time; a few unusual top notch players and blind players don't have to. ...The main reason is that there is no "fret by feel" as there is on finger fretted instruments. Point of reference is seeing the bar and its position relative to the fret markers. ...I can't read music anyway, so that isn't an issue when keeping an eye on the left hand. Very Happy

_________________
Mullen Lacquer SD 10, 3 & 5; Mullen Mica S 10 1/2 pad, 3 & 5; BJS Bars; LTD400, Nashville 112, DD-3, RV-3, Hilton VP . -- Gold Tone PBS sq neck; Wechter Scheerhorn sq neck. -- "Experience is the thing you have left when everything else is gone." -anon.-

John Booth · From: Columbus Ohio, USA

Actually, for me, (I don't know about the other players)
after a while it's more of a "gaze" in the direction of the neck
that I'm doing most of the time. You can get the bar in the
vicinity of the painted fret with a not-too-studious gaze
but the real stopping point of the bar is done mostly by how
it sounds to the player. The more you play the easier and more
naturally this all comes. Just keep putting in the hours,
and most importantly, don't forget to enjoy it.
It's not all work Brother Laughing

JB
_________________
Jb in Ohio
..................................
GFI S10 Ultra, Telecaster, a Hound Dog, and an Annoyed Wife
..................................

Larry Carlson · From: My Computer

John Mulligan · From: Ontario, Canada

I use the Don Helms tuning; it has the same intervals as C6, but it's in E, sort of like E6 tuning. This way I know know where I'm at, since I am a lifelong guitar player. I can only learn so much, and staying in E helps me. Of course I still have to look!

George Piburn · From: The Land of Enchantment New Mexico

Larry - You have already answered your own question. Steel Guitar is a memory instrument. If sight reading is your main bag , you are in for some serious wood shed time -- it can be done but is not too common.

At SteelGuitarCamp we teach, -
During the practice stage of learning , look at the Right Hand (Picking) to focus on the string grips - blocking and so on.
During the performance time you must force your self to pick by hart and look at the fret board - bar area to be able to play in tune.

Same goes with the use of a foot volume pedal, you must set foot and picking to muscle memory.

Adding sight reading , or worse - trying to sight read TABS - Chord Charts - is where memorizing helps in a big way.

If you are learning an arrangement to play with a backing track it is imperative to fully memorize every thing. The work comes in the practice stage , with endless repeated do overs until the arrangement is burned into your mind. This is what all of the players you will see on the forum do with their video track offerings, eg; Doug B - Dom F - Mike N.

When playing with a group or backing a singer , it becomes more of a function of playing Fills, understanding when to play between a vocal, and eventually doing a solo riff or finding a spot to fit in with all the other layers. During these times you wouldn't be looking at a chart anyway.

Hope this tough love helps.
_________________
GeorgeBoards S8 Non Pedal Steel Guitar Instruments
Maker of One of a Kind Works of Art that play music too.
Instructional DVDs
YouTube Channel

Andy Henriksen · From: Michigan, USA

I, too, have a terrible memory and use the crutch of printed music way too much, so I can relate to this. It is hard to look in two places at once!

Adam Nero · From: Wisconsin

one of the finest steel players i know looks at the fretboard, but advised me to have my eyes one change ahead of where i'm at, all the time.

so if i'm playing in C6 tuning, goofing around on the I chord at the 12th fret, and i wanna go to the IV chord F, on the 5th fret, to have my eyes lock onto the 5th fret before my hand starts to move there.

i think this is great advice.
_________________
2 cheap dobros, several weird old lap steels, and one lifelong ticket to ride on the pedal steel struggle bus.

Doug Beaumier · From: Northampton, MA

I agree with Adam 100%. Just before you move the bar to a new fret look at the fret you are about to move to. I tell this to all of my students. I see a lot of beginners slide their bar and then start looking for the fret they want to go to.
_________________
My Site / My YouTube Channel
25 Songs C6 Lap Steel / 25 MORE Songs C6 Lap Steel / 16 Songs, C6, A6, B11 / 60 Popular Melodies E9 Pedal Steel

Jack Aldrich · From: Washington, USA

I look at the steel most of the time, but Alan Akaka has me play with my eyes closed sometimes. It improves intonation and hand placement. On other posts on the Forum, people have commented that Buddy Emmons and Paul Franklin practice in the dark for the same reason.
_________________
Jack Aldrich
Carter & ShoBud D10's
D8 & T8 Stringmaster
Rickenbacher B6
3 Resonator guitars
Asher Alan Akaka Special SN 6
Canopus D8

Larry Carlson · From: My Computer

Chris Walke · From: St Charles, IL

Whenever I'm in a situation where I need to read music - tabs, chord charts, whatever - I put it on a music stand that can be positioned fairly low, so that the transition from looking at the neck to looking at the music isn't such a big change.

You'll get more used to the fretboard as you go. You'll be able to look less at the fretboard as muscle memory takes over. You're approximating anyway, so keep your ears focused.

George Piburn · From: The Land of Enchantment New Mexico

Here are two of many Exercises that can help everyone.

Play open and jump to fret 12 - trying to hit perfectly on the 1st try.

Then open to 11 - open -10 and so on down to fret one.

Next Play Open to fret one , - open -to fret 2 up the neck.

Each time play - lift the bar move over -- place the bar on the center of the target fret. Do not glide up to the note.

This simple action will do wonders for hand brain coordination. I've done this hundreds of times.

Later you can try more intervals of your choice.

My Students always ask - How do you make this look so easy?
I always say , "I've already put in my 20,000 hours of practice".
Doug and others have put in the time in the bedroom-woodshed-bandstand too.
_________________
GeorgeBoards S8 Non Pedal Steel Guitar Instruments
Maker of One of a Kind Works of Art that play music too.
Instructional DVDs
YouTube Channel

David Matzenik · From: Cairns, on the Coral Sea

Don Barnhardt · From: North Carolina, USA

Singing and playing steel is difficult (not impossible) for this very reason.

Alex Shi · From: Taiwan

Those are really great tips, thanks! I'm also a beginner and find the transition from frets to fretless challenging. Plus getting used to fingerpicks at the same time. But it's fun and rewarding as well.

Larry Carlson · From: My Computer

Bill Brunt · From: Texas, USA

You really just have to memorize the melody, not all the grips and bar movements/positions.
Herb Remington taught me that if I memorize the song well enough to whistle it all the way through, my hands will start going to the right places with practice.

...OK, I contradicted myself.
You need to memorize the melody(the easy part) and your harmonized scales (a lot of butt-time).

Well, it doesn't matter how I say it, it takes a lot of repetition.

I have also heard you can put Doug's book under your pillow, and you will be able to play all the songs in it in one week.

I tried it, and it didn't work for me, but I am a slow learner.
I will give it another week

Doug Beaumier · From: Northampton, MA

I think it's a good idea to memorize a few instrumentals, a few "go to" songs that you can play at any time, whether you play at home or with a band. It's also important to learn the chord positions on your tuning, the major and minor chords, some fills, scales, harmonized scales, how to play backup to a singer, etc. if your goal is to play with a band.
_________________
My Site / My YouTube Channel
25 Songs C6 Lap Steel / 25 MORE Songs C6 Lap Steel / 16 Songs, C6, A6, B11 / 60 Popular Melodies E9 Pedal Steel

Carl Mesrobian · From: Salem, Massachusetts, USA

As far as watching both hands at once, having eyes like this might help:

I have played 6 string guitar for too many years and found that even that is more about focusing on the left hand (for right handed player). As far as reading and playing you just have to take quicker glances, I guess. Lots of times I use the music as a road map more than sight reading , since I'm terrible at reading. I shed the tunes at home and when I go out I hope to have the melody nailed already. For soloing I play the tune in my head while I improvise - my improv's always been easier to do than play the heads.

As far as Doug's book, sleep with a thinner pillow..
_________________
--carl

"The better it gets, the fewer of us know it." Ray Brown

Barbara Berg · From: Washington, USA

Thanks for the question, I have been only playing about 4 years, and I haven't really thought about looking at the music, the neck, my finger placements. I've tried so hard to learn how to block correctly, and do a pretty decent vibrato. I guess my mind just did the walking "kinda like the yellow pages". It really starts to naturally take effect, especially picking up the sound correctly while going past the fret. I never look at my fingers and what strings to pick, I feel by just knowing how far my pick placement is, moving my hand with my elbow up and down the 6 strings. I can't give you any advice except keep playing. I use the C6 tuning and really like it. In the 50's for one whole year I played open A tuning, then quit. It has been too much fun relearning a different tuning and playing Hawaiian and Country songs. I learn so much from all of you on the forum. Thanks from a amateur that is crazy about lap steels!

Dom Franco · From: Beaverton, OR, 97007

I sing and play the steel guitar all the time. So my main concern is keeping eye contact with my audience, while finding the bar position correctly.

It can be done, you just have to train your ear to hear when you are in tune (at the right fret) I still always have to look down when jumping 5 frets or more, But I can easily play in a pocket of 2 frets above and two frets below a starting position.

May I suggest learning scales using two frets (say 5 and 7 for example) learn the pattern for a major and minor scale. Looking at first, then just by listening for the correct pitch. Your hand ear coordination will kick in and you will get used to scales and lick based around a center fret position up 2 or down 2...

Dom Smile

_________________
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYG9cvwCPKuXpGofziPNieA/feed?activity_view=3

Forum Index > Steel Without Pedals		Next oldest topic :: Next newest topic