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Topic: Fender Dual 8 Walnut? |
Jerry Roller
From:
Van Buren, Arkansas USA
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Posted 16 Nov 2014 9:53 pm |
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I have a D-8 Fender which I stripped because the lacquer was so checked and the wood looks like walnut. Can someone tell me if Fender made some of these guitars with walnut wood? If so I don't know how best to finish it. I really wanted to finish it in the off white or pale yellow whatever was the right color but I don't think I can do that if the wood is really walnut and might not want to cover up walnut. I need some good information and recommendations.
Thanks,
Jerry
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http://www.littleoprey.org/ |
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Jeff Mead
From:
London, England
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Posted 17 Nov 2014 2:54 am
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In the catalogues, Fender describe the wood used on the Dual Pro's as "Light or dark hardwood" but most people refer to the dark brown "natural" finish as Walnut.
I've got one and always assumed it was walnut. The laquer on mine is really checked but that's one of the things I love about it.
Post a picture and I'm sure someone here will be able to confirm what you have.
Here's mine...
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Andy Henriksen
From:
Michigan, USA
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Scott Thomas
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Posted 17 Nov 2014 8:03 am
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Fender did indeed make many Duals and Customs (T-8 ) out of walnut. I recall Jody Carver writing that he preferred the sound of the walnut made ones.
It's my perception (don't know for sure) that as time went on, most steels were made out of ash and some of these were stained brown and have come to be called "walnut"...for the color, not the actual wood. |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Jerry Roller
From:
Van Buren, Arkansas USA
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Posted 17 Nov 2014 8:54 am
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I have always assumed that the Fender steels were made of ash. Funny thing is I had a cabinet shop for years back in the 70's and 80's and worked quite a bit with walnut but felt so strongly that all the Fenders were ash I couldn't make myself believe this guitar is walnut even though it looks like walnut.
The color and grain pattern looks like walnut. However, it does not smell like walnut. It really doesn't smell like anything.
Jerry
_________________
http://www.littleoprey.org/ |
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Tom Pettingill
From:
California, USA (deceased)
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 17 Nov 2014 2:00 pm
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| Something that complicates the wood identification is that I have observed that swamp ash and walnut can have rather similar looking grain. Stained ash can resemble walnut. But yes, Jody did speak of walnut guitars. |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 17 Nov 2014 3:09 pm
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| And I've seen Ash that looked just like Oak. |
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 17 Nov 2014 3:09 pm
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| Just because somebody who was there when they were making them and knows what they're talking about doesn't mean you have to change your mind about anything. |
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Bill Creller
From:
Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)
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Posted 18 Nov 2014 12:31 am
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Some years ago I looked at one that was for sale, walnut like that picture. It had a crack starting between the necks, and I passed....
I still have one made of ash around here someplace... |
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Rick Aiello
From:
Berryville, VA USA
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Posted 18 Nov 2014 5:01 am
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I bought mine back in the 80's from one of my chemistry student's mother .. $50 sight unseen ... 
It was so beat up, you'd swear it was thrown off Mauna Kea ... 
I took everything off and sanded it down ... Way down ... To get all the dings out ... It was the same color all the way down (no stain) ... 
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Scott Thomas
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Posted 18 Nov 2014 10:15 am
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You can really see the walnut grain in yours, Rick. In fact, your guitar illustrates a couple of recent "controversies"...were some Fenders made of walnut, and did they ever mix traps and boxcars on the same guitar?
For myself, a feature of yours raises another question in my mind. Yours is the second guitar I've seen this week which appears to show a definite join line running horizontally the length of the guitar. I had always assumed the duals and customs were made of one big chunk of wood--and in a sense, they are--but I never thought about that wood being joined or laminated out of two pieces. |
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Jeff Mead
From:
London, England
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Posted 18 Nov 2014 11:04 am
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| Scott Thomas wrote: |
| I had always assumed the duals and customs were made of one big chunk of wood--and in a sense, they are--but I never thought about that wood being joined or laminated out of two pieces. |
I've often wondered what's behind the diamonds. Is it tie rods like on a Stringmaster but just to give the guitar some extra strength?
I had previously assumed that on the double at least, the two necks and the connecting piece were separate bits of wood maybe glued together. It would certainly be easier to make them that way instead of carving it out of one piece. There would also be more wasted wood I would have thought if it was all one piece.
There's a D8 on Ebay right now and the cracks in it are exactly where you would expect them to be if it was made of 3 pieces...
But I really find it hard to believe that any steels left the factory with one trapezoid and one boxcar pickup. Surely it is more likely that the pickup died and, in the days before you could get someone to rewind them, was reeplaced with whatever was available from an older (or newer) instrument. |
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Rick Aiello
From:
Berryville, VA USA
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Posted 18 Nov 2014 3:11 pm
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The kid in my class said his Grandfather had played steel guitar in a country/western band his whole life ... And his guitar had been in the garage for years ...
I asked what kind it was ... He didn't know ... So he went home dug it out ... Came back and said it was a Fender ...
I told him to ask his mom if she wanted to sell it ... I said I'd give her $50 sight unseen ... Just joking around ... ... He came back the next morning and she said "Deal". 
I drove over after school and got it ...
It had holes drilled behind both pickups ... The Boxcar has about a 1/2" strip of mounting plate missing ... No doubt the gentleman tried to "rig it" with pedals ...
I need to rebuild both bobbins ... Kept the orifices open with pieces of chopsticks for years ... But they deserve a new bobbin/coil ...
On my "to do" list this winter |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 18 Nov 2014 3:18 pm
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It's funny---I never gave it any thought. But now I am closely inspecting a Dual Pro and it is indeed 3 pieces. Very tight joinery, you have to really look for it. 
So the rod through it must be for reinforcement.
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Jeff Mead
From:
London, England
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Posted 18 Nov 2014 3:48 pm
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| Jon Light wrote: |
| It's funny---I never gave it any thought. But now I am closely inspecting a Dual Pro and it is indeed 3 pieces. Very tight joinery, you have to really look for it. |
Thanks for that, Jon.
So the remaining question is the Custom Triple 8.
How many bits is that made of?
Like the D8, I'm wondering if it would even need the reinforcing rod if it were made of a single bit of wood? |
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Scott Thomas
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Posted 18 Nov 2014 4:46 pm
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Nice pics, guys. I can see where the Stringmaster design facilitated easier assembly compared to the joining involved in the Dual/Custom models.
| Jeff Mead wrote: |
But I really find it hard to believe that any steels left the factory with one trapezoid and one boxcar pickup. |
I tend to agree...
Rick, when you get at those pickups this winter, I hope you can tell us if those connections look original or not. |
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Rick Aiello
From:
Berryville, VA USA
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Posted 18 Nov 2014 6:41 pm
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I've already been in there ... The switch, pots, cap and jack are all original ... Nobody has ever messed with any electronics ...
Obviously the previous owner had modified the body and steel mounting plates ... Drilling & cutting ... But nothing was done to the solder joints as far as I can see ...
No doubt ... The pickups themselves are untouched ... Hence my ability to replicate "Boxcar" and "Trap" bobbins, coils and magnets (NIBs of course) ..
Regardless of whether it "left the factory" like this ... Or was retrofitted ... Really makes no difference to me ...
In my world ... Function trumps originality |
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Gary Meixner
From:
New York, USA
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Posted 18 Nov 2014 6:46 pm
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I have never seen one of these guitars that was made from a single piece of walnut although it is possible. More than likely the major machining was done with the guitar in three pieces and then joined. The rods would reinforce the joint and keep the guitar from coming apart over time or during a rough ride in the trunk of a car.
Fender, I am sure was a practical man, and wide, thick walnut would have sold at a high premium even in the 1940's and 50's. I have often wondered why he chose to use walnut, particularly if he didn't advertise it as a premium option.
His other wood choices were lower cost materials. Ash has always been and continues to be a relatively inexpensive hardwood. Despite that, some members of the ash genus (Fraxinus) have exceptional properties. White Ash (F. americana) and Green Ash (F. pennsylvanica) are the two most commonly available of the genus. Swamp Ash (Fraxinus nigra) traditionally was a lower value species because it tends to be variable in properties but generally less dense, and not as strong, but also less common. It can be difficult to tell all members of the genus apart at times.
Ash and walnut are quite different if you know what to look for. Without getting into a lot of other stuff, when in doubt take a look at the end grain. In ash, the pores will appear large and distinct and concentrated mostly in the early wood or at the growth rings. With walnut the pores are finer, less distinct with some clustering in the early wood but more diffused throughout. A picture for comparison would help and if I can figure out how to post some I will. These features also show in different ways on face of a board as well, and once you learn to recognize them they are easy to tell the two apart at a glance.
Keep in mind common names for wood or trees can be misleading, that is why those in the business will often use the Latin names. As a good example, poplar is commonly marketed hardwood but the wood most often sold as such isn't a poplar at all.
Also some species grow over a very wide range of environments and while the plant may technically be the species you are looking for the wood properties may be nothing like what you would expect.
Best always,
Gary Meixner |
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Tommy Auldridge
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 18 Nov 2014 7:18 pm Walnut
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| I too have one made of walnut. It looks just like Jerry's and Rick's. It needs one of it's pick-ups repaired. And that's on my to do list also. Tommy...... |
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Scott Thomas
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Posted 18 Nov 2014 7:43 pm
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| Rick Aiello wrote: |
I've already been in there ... The switch, pots, cap and jack are all original ... Nobody has ever messed with any electronics ...
Obviously the previous owner had modified the body and steel mounting plates ... Drilling & cutting ... But nothing was done to the solder joints as far as I can see ...
No doubt ... The pickups themselves are untouched ... Hence my ability to replicate "Boxcar" and "Trap" bobbins, coils and magnets (NIBs of course) ..
Regardless of whether it "left the factory" like this ... Or was retrofitted ... Really makes no difference to me ...
In my world ... Function trumps originality |
Thanks, Rick. Interesting! In the end it's all just more minutiae to add to the database for nerds like me.
Gary, yes...the highly prized "swamp ash". I suppose its coveted qualities of relative light weight and perceived tonal superiority first gained traction with the Telecaster crowd. So much so, that it has come to be associated with the early "good" Fenders of the glory days, while the heavy "northern" ash is blamed for the boat anchor guitars of the late '60s and '70s when CBS Fender went for more readily available sources. |
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