At a turning point with lap steel....

Fraser Moffatt · From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

Well, I've had my Asher for several weeks now and have had the chance to jam it out with my "old-timer hillbilly" band. I was playing dobro with them, but I broke out the lap steel and they really want to hear more of that, so I guess the path is set.

My issue is with tunings. I'm currently set up in G dobro tuning (GDBGDB) and while that has been good for the transition, I find it's not quite cutting it with our repertoire (lots of old country I-IV-V type stuff, a lot in C and G, some in E and D) when it comes to comping and somewhat when it comes to soloing. I basically feel that I sound pretty much the same from song to song when comping. I feel that this tuning is too bluesy and not country enough.

I'm working in the volume pedal so I'm *almost* going for a pedal steel like vibe without the pedals. Kinda like a console but with a single six string neck.

What would be the next tuning to explore? C6? A major? I also hate to waste a good set of strings, so what might I be able to get away with using the stock Asher strings (.015 to .058)? What string set would be appropriate with other tunings? The Asher is 25" scale length if that matters...

Any advice or recommendations would be appreciated.
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Rookie-ish steel player - currently tinkering around on a BMI S10 and a Guyatone S8. Bassist and vocalist for The Derringers.

Paul Honeycutt · From: Colorado, USA

I got a lot of mileage from an open E tuning, but I'm learning C6 and while it's a challenge, it workes so well for old country. Suddenly there's that sound.

Rick Barnhart · From: Arizona, USA

If you are currently used to your dobro G tuning G B D G B D, and are considering C6. What I would suggest is tunng your 4th string down to E. From low to high G B E G B D That will give you G6, the same relative intervals as C6 without changing your current strings. If you don't like it....at least then you'll know, and you can tighten it right back up.

(You mentioned your current dobro tuning was G D B G D B, I'm guessing you meant G B D G B D).
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Ian · From: San Francisco, CA

Fraser,

I made a similar transition in a band I was playing with some years back - Dobro to lap steel. It took a while to get competent but the C6 tuning really lends itself to that "old timey" sound. Check it out.

Ian

Stephen Cowell · From: Round Rock, Texas, USA

Waste the strings, tune to proper C6... you won't look back.
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Fraser Moffatt · From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

Thanks for the input lads. Guess I'll order up some C6 strings....and while I wait, I'll try out the G6 tuning that Rick suggested.

Rick, yes, I meant GBD... Smile

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Rookie-ish steel player - currently tinkering around on a BMI S10 and a Guyatone S8. Bassist and vocalist for The Derringers.

Dom Franco · From: Beaverton, OR, 97007

If you still have your Dobro then you can switch for certain songs, G6th would be a very easy transition, although C6 is much more common, and there are tons of tablature and lessons for C6th out there.

I play A6th myself...

Dom
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Jim Williams · From: Meridian, Mississippi, USA - Home of Peavey!

I tried the dobro type tuning on my lap steel when I first started and did not like it at all. Actually I tried it because I was getting a dobro and wanted something to start on until I got it...that led to me getting hooked on the lap steel instead. Now everything I have is set up for C6 after experimenting with a lot of tunings. I find it to be very versatile for old country, not so old country, etc. Once used to it, it is a very easy tuning, at least for me to find melodies and chords in. I am thinking of putting E13 strings on a little short scale Rogue I have to play some of the stuff from the Don Helms book and get the nearer the original sound. I would also strongly recommend picking up Doug Beaumier's 25 songs for lap steel c6. Learning some of the stuff in there is a good way to get familiar with the C6 tuning, at least it has been for me.
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Jim Norman · From: Virginia, USA

This is my first post after finally joining the forum! Figured it was time since, like you, I've been spending more time at the lap steel and less at the dobro. C6 is a great tuning to work with, well worth the proper string investment. Once I went that way with my Asher EHJr, I did miss having a G tuned lap for certain tunes, so I ended up buying a used Gold Tone, too (I really like it). So I've gone from being a strictly acoustic guy with a microphone to shlepping 1 dobro and 2 lap steels and a humongous pedal board to gigs and plugging everything in. It's a lot of fun. Good luck with C6, you'll love it.

Fraser Moffatt · From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

Jim, Norm - thanks for your comments.

Well, I got her strung up in C6 after a very brief dalliance with G6. This is going to take a bit of work to figure out.

Not sure if it was my background playing Open G on a six string slide guitar in years past but I took right to the dobro tuning; was able to get my repertoire up to about 10 tunes in a week or so; melody and lead runs were really easy to figure out.

Not so with C6 so far.... Confused

Like I said, gonna take some practice.

Jim, I think you're right about having multiple instruments on a gig....some tunes would suit dobro, so would suit lap steel better, and even others would suit pedal steel or baritone guitar....Arrrgh! When does it end? Very Happy

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Rookie-ish steel player - currently tinkering around on a BMI S10 and a Guyatone S8. Bassist and vocalist for The Derringers.

Jamie Mitchell · From: Nashville, TN

Fraser, try:

E B G# E C# A, hi to low.

that's been my main tuning for awhile now, and I think you'd like it.
you've got the dobro thing on the bottom three strings, a lot more chords available, and you still have the open E on top. I go back and forth between that tuning and C6 with the same gauges, often.

Mark van Allen · From: Watkinsville, Ga. USA

Hi, Fraser, Lap steel to me can be a funny instrument in that it really depends on what kind(s) of music you play and what the sound is you hear in your head, or what other player's styles you've admired, as far as what tuning might best serve.

While it's true that you can eventually play any style or genre on any tuning, (I always think of Randy Kohr's hot modern reso playing contrasted with his smoking rock/blues lap styles, both played on G tuning), certain tunings really seem to lend themselves to various styles. (My opinions of course!)

For a basic all-around thing, folky to bluegrass to Americana, bluesy to country (but not so much Swing or Hank W style) I find G tuning really friendly.

For Swing, Hawaiian, Early country styles, definitely C or A6, but for me it's harder to avoid the 6th tone in the middle of the neck when playing rock or Americana things that aren't so 6th friendly.

I've settled on E or D in a R-5-R-3-5-R low to high configuration for much of what I do, works great for everything but Swing or Early country where I really want to hear the 6th in there. But most of what I play live and on sessions is other than Swing or vintage country...

I have a couple of courses out that go deeply into G and E/D tunings that might help you see more potential in either of those. I'd suggest the Helms book and Scotty's C6 course for getting a good start with that, and then the Byrd Big Book to get deeper into his use of melody and slants. The Helms material is deceptively simple as a great approach to classic country sounds without using slants.

Best wishes in the search!
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Jim Williams · From: Meridian, Mississippi, USA - Home of Peavey!

Fraser, this site has a lot of info and tabs on C6th: http://www.steelc6th.com/ as does Greg Cutshaw's excellent site: http://www.gregcutshaw.com/

Both of these have a lot of tab for scales, etc. that might be helpful to you.
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GFI SM10 3/4, 1937 Gibson EH-150, 2 - Rondo SX Lap Steels and a Guyatone 6 String C6. Peavey 400 and a Roland 40 Amps. Behringer Reverb Pedal.

Fraser Moffatt · From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

Thanks for the additional info lads - yes, I have been to steelc6th site and greg's site. Lots of info to parse through there for sure!

Mark, I hear your about "what sound I hear in my head". I guess with my background (rock, blues mostly), I'm not entirely sure what to do with the 6th. I like the sound of it and like how it works into old-timey country stuff but maybe I'm just not really "hearing" it just yet.

I for sure hear G dobro tuning in my head and have managed to get up to advanced intermediate playing quite quickly, to the point where I can convincingly pull off some improvisation on familiar tunes.

What I hear in my head sounds like it should on the dobro, but I feel something was lost in translation on the lap steel in G. Oh, what I am playing on the lap steel in G tuning is just fine, I just feel like there should be something more (like accessible 6th, 7th and minor chord triads).

Definitely going to have to study the C6 tuning a bit more than I did G if I want to get that western swing/Hank sound.

I guess that's why they invented multiple neck guitars!

I'm also going to try the altered tuning Jamie suggests...

Mark - what gauges are you using for your E/D tuning?

Edit: just ordered the Dewitt Scott and Helms books!
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Rookie-ish steel player - currently tinkering around on a BMI S10 and a Guyatone S8. Bassist and vocalist for The Derringers.

Jamie Mitchell · From: Nashville, TN

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