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Topic: I need to find a sticky goo to tighten a loose tuning screw |
Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 6 Nov 2014 12:03 pm |
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On some strings on my Emmons push/pull, I raise to 2 different pitches on 2 pedals. For example 4th string raises a whole step on the C pedal, and a half step on a knee lever. To tune the half step I reach under the guitar and turn the screw you see here (not very clear, I'm holding a pencil tip on the threaded screw where it goes thru the puller) :
But the screw isn't tight enough and I have to re-tune it every few minutes. I would like to put some sticky substance in there to hold it on place, but not so sticky that I can't tune it at all.
What would you put in there? |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 6 Nov 2014 12:09 pm
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| Permatex thread locker. |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 6 Nov 2014 12:25 pm
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I probably ought to try this myself before throwing it out there but....I wonder if wax on the threads might create enough friction and fill the threads enough to take out some of the slack. I'm thinking of paraffin or bees wax that a wood worker might use. Or candle wax. Not melting it---just rubbing the thread through it and then just screwing it in.
If it's a dumb idea, let me have it. I can take it. |
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Tommy Auldridge
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 6 Nov 2014 12:38 pm Spring
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| I would just put a spring in there. That's what I use on my P/P Emmons. It would just fit between the swivel and the knurled part of the tuner. Tommy...... |
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Gary Cosden
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 6 Nov 2014 12:41 pm
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| Lock tite is made in a version that does not harden and allows for turning the screw once in a while. Regular versions are not going to work since they are intended to prevent loosening. A small piece of spring right where the pencil is pointing would work. A ballpoint pen spring works fine on the regular tuning screws on a push pull but I think here the diameter might be too small. A spring here would prevent backlash and keep the screw from turning every time a load is applied. |
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Jim Bob Sedgwick
From:
Clinton, Missouri USA
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Posted 6 Nov 2014 12:42 pm
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| If you can remove the screw, try one wrap of plumber's Telfon tape and replace. This also works well on nylon changer tuners. It's a cheap fix that will last for years. Hope this might help. |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 6 Nov 2014 12:44 pm
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| Jon Light wrote: |
I wonder if ............
If it's a dumb idea, let me have it. I can take it. |
OK, I will let you have it. The ideas aren't dumb, but I think that someone's actual experience may be more valuable than speculation.
For example I see Permatex Threadlocker (thanks, Erv) low, medium, high strength and don't know what to try. |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 6 Nov 2014 12:45 pm
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| Jim Bob Sedgwick wrote: |
| If you can remove the screw, try one wrap of plumber's Telfon tape and replace. This also works well on nylon changer tuners. It's a cheap fix that will last for years. Hope this might help. |
I've tried teflon tape in similar cases and for me it didn't last long at all. |
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Kurt Kowalski
From:
Kendall, NY USA
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Posted 6 Nov 2014 12:52 pm
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Hi Doug,
Hope you are well my friend.
I have used silicone caulk in the past. (Tub sealer works)
Just a dab is needed.
Let it dry and you should be all good.
The nice thing about the silicone sealer is that it drys rubbery and will peel off when needed. It also will allow for adjusting.
Remember just a dab on the threads, then put the threads back together and tune her up.
My best to you always!
-kk- |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 6 Nov 2014 1:22 pm
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I think plumber's pipe dope (the label calls it "thread sealer or something like that) would be better than a thread locker or caulk. Dope stays pasty, so it'll move with the screws.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Scott Swartz
From:
St. Louis, MO
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Tommy Auldridge
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 6 Nov 2014 2:23 pm Install a spring
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| I still say stay away from putting anything sticky in that spot. The Emmons factory always put a piece of spring there. I have 9 Emmons push/pull steel guitars, and every one of them has a spring in that 1/2 tuner spot. The blue loctite is okay for the tuning screws at the changer, I also use a spring around the tuning screw. Everything stays put until I move it a little. Thats just the way I do it. Tommy...... |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 6 Nov 2014 3:00 pm
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"I have 9 Emmons push/pull steel guitars, and every one of them has a spring in that 1/2 tuner spot."
That would seem to be the correct answer. I was going to suggest violin rosin on the threads, but it sounds like you have a part missing,,,, the spring. |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 6 Nov 2014 3:04 pm
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| John Billings wrote: |
"I have 9 Emmons push/pull steel guitars, and every one of them has a spring in that 1/2 tuner spot."
That would seem to be the correct answer. I was going to suggest violin rosin on the threads, but it sounds like you have a part missing,,,, the spring. |
I do have springs on some of them. The spring gets squashed every time I use the knee lever, so I don't see how it can hold the screw in place. Still it is worth a try. |
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Tommy Auldridge
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 6 Nov 2014 3:24 pm Wrong spot
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| If the spring is getting smashed when you use the knee lever, You have the spring in the wrong spot. Maybe Lynn Stafford or Mike Cass can post a photo that will show how it should be installed. Tommy...... |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 6 Nov 2014 3:53 pm Right spot
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| Tommy Auldridge wrote: |
| If the spring is getting smashed when you use the knee lever, You have the spring in the wrong spot. Maybe Lynn Stafford or Mike Cass can post a photo that will show how it should be installed. Tommy...... |
Thanks; spring is in the right spot, and it does seem to help.
It holds the screw so that it can't wiggle when the knee lever is not engaged. But when the lever engages, it does compress a tiny bit. It just compresses by the amount of looseness in the threads. That is the looseness that we are trying to prevent, so the screw can't rotate. |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 6 Nov 2014 5:32 pm
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I've changed my mind about how the spring helps. I had thought it was supposed to do what Loctite does: increase friction on the screw threads (inside where you can't see it) by pushing it tight toward one end. Obviously this fails for a brief instant every time you use the knee lever, so I thought this cannot work.
Now I think the spring works by friction where you can see it: at each end of the spring. One end is on the head of the screw and the other end on the puller (pusher actually since it pushes the screw which pushes the collar which pulls the pull rod), and the spring is always pushing so there is friction that inhibits rotation.
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 6 Nov 2014 6:37 pm
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| there was a reason for years of honky tonk smoke, nicotine and bourbon. it holds my steels together. |
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Tommy Auldridge
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 7 Nov 2014 6:16 am That's it
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| Earnest: NOW you've got it. Tommy...... |
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Jim Palenscar
From:
Oceanside, Calif, USA
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Posted 7 Nov 2014 6:32 am
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| Loctite 545 - will allow movement but takes a bit of pressure to do it. |
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Tony Glassman
From:
The Great Northwest
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Posted 7 Nov 2014 7:08 am
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| I use either springs or the older stiff rubber surgical tubing between the bell crank tuner and the rod collar on P/Ps. I just want enough friction so the tuner does not rotate on it's own, but is movable by me. |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 7 Nov 2014 8:23 am
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I don't have any Loctite etc but I looks like I don't need it since I got that spring in there nice and tight. I played it for quite a while and it stayed in tune. Thanks to all for your suggestions.
Note this is on a very sensitive string #6 G# .020 plain. If that screw rotates even a tiny bit, it sounds really bad. Usually I use a wound 6th string because it stays in tune so much better (and I like the sound). But on the push/pull I use a plain 6th string because the LKV lever raises it a whole step, and that pull is just too long on a wound string. |
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Peter Freiberger
From:
California, USA
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Posted 7 Nov 2014 1:27 pm
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| Maybe you could put a little lock nut on the screw and finger tighten it against the swivel when you have the screw adjusted to your liking? |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 7 Nov 2014 2:20 pm
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| Thanks, Pete; the tight spring seems to have fixed it. I got some blue Loctite today anyway. Maybe it will hold those screws on the Emmons pedals that always come loose. |
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Niels Andrews
From:
Salinas, California, USA
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Posted 8 Nov 2014 9:04 am
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After 30 tears as a helicopter pilot I can say I probably owe my life to loctite. Use the blue and if you ever need to remove the screw and you are having problems just use a hair dryer to warm it up. And don't use the red unless you want it permanent, it is some tough stuff, but still removable with heat.
_________________
Die with Memories. Not Dreams.
Good Stuff like Zum S-12, Wolfe Resoport
MSA SS-12, Telonics Combo. |
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