Switching from 10 string E9 to a 12 string Uni

Ken Campbell · From: Ferndale, Montana

Gonna make the jump to hyperspace. Anything to watch out for? Any instructional material I need to obtain?

Thanks
Kc

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

I remember my toughest stress being in the shaking of the foundation of the bottom string no longer being the 10th string B, the 10-8-6 grip now being 9-8-6, the 8th string E now being the 5th string from the bottom instead of the 3rd.........basically, a large piece of your foundation has been altered.
All I can say is that if you start bugging out, work through it. It took me maybe 4 weeks to no longer feel like I'd lost half of what I'd thought I knew and start to feel grounded again. Once I regained some comfort I did not regret the change one bit.

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

Took me one day of wood-shedding. Don't sweat it!

Les Cargill · From: Oklahoma City, Ok, USA

The stuff that's the same will be the same, mostly. E lowers on RKL makes a lot of sense.

After going on a year, my right leg still wants to move levers and not pedals Smile

I think "RIGHT LEG!" and it goes to a lever. No! Bad leg!

To be fair, I've only recently started intermixing E9 and C6 stuff in the same song. For a while, I'd lash the E lower down with a string to avoid having to think about the lever when "doing" C6.

John De Maille · From: On a Mountain in Upstate Halcottsville, N.Y.

I switched from an S-10 to a U-12, ten years ago. It wasn't hard at all to do. The grips from strings 8-1 are the same, plus ABC pedals and any knee levers you have. What helped me was Jeff Newmans E9th- B6th course. It was good for showing grips and chord changes and got me started in playing the 6th side. My S-10 had the E lowers on the RKR knee lever, which, I feel is the best place to place it for uni playing. You just lean your knee over and forget about it. You could also look into a lever lock for the E flats, but, that locks you into playing one tuning at a tiime. I don't do that because I like to play one tuning which utilizes both sounds. Of course, the one thing missing on the tuning is an open D string, but, that note can be gotten with a knee lever raising the 9th string B to a D. BTW- you don't have to be limited to JN's course, other C6th courses will work, you just have to remember that you're tuned to B not C. I hope this helps.

Robert Parent · From: Gillette, WY

I have both a D-10 and a SD-12 so change between the two fairly often. A few hours of practice and everything feels normal. I do have both guitars knee levers setup close to the same so that really helps.

Robert

Robert Parent · From: Gillette, WY

I have both a D-10 and a SD-12 so change between the two fairly often. A few hours of practice and everything feels normal. I do have both guitars knee levers setup close to the same so that really helps.

Robert

Mark van Allen · From: Watkinsville, Ga. USA

Enjoy the leap, Ken. I only wish I'd done it years ago.
The Newman Universal course is good, but If you haven't much experience with standard C6, I really suggest getting the Emmons C6 course and Newman C6 courses and transposing. Great foundation stuff in all those courses.

As for getting used to the new layout on the lower strings, I suggest making up some exercises for yourself, like running chord arpeggios across the "new" string grips, playing through songs or favorite chord progressions using just the lower couple of grips, etc. Think of how you'll actually want to use the tuning when playing and practice those things that will make it second nature for you.

For instance, if you have the E to a D on a lever, as John mentioned, put in some time relearning how to apply that to the stuff you already play using the 9th string on your standard setup. Best wishes, it's a lot of fun and a very versatile setup!
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Tony Glassman · From: The Great Northwest

I am the lone dissenter. I love the "universal" idea on paper.....so much so,that 4 years ago, I took the plunge and bought two used Zum U-12s. I rebuilt their undercarriages and was fully committed to the tuning.

I stuck with it for about 6 mos, but never got comfortable with the additional bottom two bass strings or having to play all the swing stuff one fret up. I finally decided that life was just too short to always feel miserable while playing steel and sold/traded them for a pair of D-10s (P/P, and LeGrande II).

I guess this ol' dog doesn't play often enough to learn new tricks. However, were I was just starting out, I would probably consider a U-12

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

About a year ago when I got serious about playing and joined this forum, I decided very early on to tune the back neck of my D10 to B6 instead of C6 just in case I ever got my hands on a uni (which seemed little more than a dream at the time). I worked through various C6 material playing one fret up and got really into it, as much as the E9. Now that I have a uni 12 I'm really glad I went that route.

I know this won't help anyone who's played C6 for years, but to those who have played E9 for a while and are curious about C6, I would suggest learning B6 - the one-fret adjustment becomes automatic after a while and the transition to uni is seamless.
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Tucker Jackson · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

Bob Simons · From: Kansas City, Mo, USA

I believe everyone is still thinking about U12 the wrong way. It is not a single neck way to fake having two necks and two approaches. It is a simply single neck guitar with many manny more harmonic possibilities that should be freely intermixed in arrangements as they suit the musical subject matter- like arranging on any single necked instrument.

I believe the UNI will come of age when that perceptual shift is accomplished.
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John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

I admit I play mine as mostly E9th,,,, but with all these cool swinging extras. I don't see it as two tunings. YMMV tho, depending on what you're looking for,,,, obviously!

Mark van Allen · From: Watkinsville, Ga. USA

I really agree with the "one big tuning" philosophy. Because of that, I think it can misleading to think of the "6th" side as "one fret up..." while of course any tab and mental conditioning on C6 setups need to be translated or shifted one fret relative to a C6 tuned guitar,it can be confusing the issue for a beginner or someone who has mostly played a single neck E9.

B6 isn't a "fret off", it's really just another side of the E9 tuning, and one most players have been using extensively, for instance, when they play out of a 5 chord position using the E lowers, or a minor using the same lowers. The 6th chords, pockets, and positions are all very logically connected or embedded in the familiar E9 setup.

I know I was chased off from exploring the universal concept years ago by the perception (and advice) that C6 was "normal" and the Universal setup provided some kind of lamer version of C6 in order to combine it with E9. Not the case at all, and I wish I'd seen that much earlier. Universal provides a way to get a great many sounds and styles within one tuning platform, and a smaller and lighter guitar. The only real advantage to a doubleneck setup I can see is the ability to really load up the two necks with knee levers for extensive changes. If you don't really need that, I think the Universal can provide anything you want.
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Les Cargill · From: Oklahoma City, Ok, USA

One way to reinforce what Mark is saying is to look here:
http://www.larrybell.org/id24.htm

The E9 and C6 already had a whale of a lot in common. They hadn't been around long enough to evolve too radically differently.

(reiterating Mark again)
But if you think you may be pointed at a Paul Franklin type setup, you'll run out of changer:
http://b0b.com/tunings/pf_c6.htm
http://b0b.com/tunings/franklin.htm

That's 20 pulls on E9, *27* on C6, plus one split for each.

I don't know how you'd know which way you'd need to go long term. I doubt I could properly exploit Franklin's setup for a very long time.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Les, that's the advantage in the Sho-Bud system. And why my Uni is a Bud SD-12
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Niels Andrews · From: Salinas, California, USA

I started with Reece on a Uni, so I never paid a lot of attention to the two tuning concept. Some music lends itself to one set of chord patterns versus another but they are all right there.
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Bobby D. Jones · From: West Virginia, USA

I feel like someone who has one foot on the dock and one on a boat drifting away. I now have a 10 string E9 and a 12 Uni. I have played E9 10 string for about 15 years. I got a chance to buy a 12 string. I am in the process of sitting the 12 Uni up. The bad thing is I have set the Uni up Day with the E raise and E lower on my Right knee, My plan is the Jeff Newman arrangement with a Horizonal Left Knee Right. My 10 E9 has Day with E's on Left Knee. I am glad I live alone, Won't have to put a bath room and kitchen in the Wood shed, Now I time to get to work and get the 12 string in my Nuro Memory. May be a long hard battle.

Lonny Servin · From: Oregon, WI, USA

I feel the Universal tuning makes the most sense. Everything you need is right there without changing necks on a D-10.

Paul Crawford · From: Orlando, Fl

What sound is in your head? What type of music do you love to play? I started on a U12 and switched to a D10 because it suited my ear. It took me about 6 months of trying to play swing and Western swing on a U12 to start to bump into things I couldn't quite do. I could hit the chords but not the voices. As soon as I started on C6th I knew I was home.

Other die hard classic E9th players can never get over the loss of their 9th string. Again, it's not the case they can't get the chords, it's just not in the place they want to get them.

If you have some preconceived notion of what you want to play and the sound you are going after, pick a tuning that matches the sound in your head. If you want a general purpose sound and want to make it your own, then the U12 is probably a good way to go.

Tom Mossburg · From: AZ,

If you're just starting the Universal tuning, I highly recommend putting the e lower on the RKR. That makes it a whole lot easier to get to the "6th" pedals on the guitar. The LKL should do the e raises. The RKL lowers the second and raises the 9th or lowers the 8th to get the 7th on the E9th side. I've got my LKR a bit further to the right on the guitar so it doesn't interfere with getting to the "6th" pedals. I had the e lowers on the RKL for years and I admit it wasn't easy to switch but I'm glad I did. I find that the new material I learned I had no problem with the change but with the old stuff, I kind of still wanted to use the RKL. I still do at times but I'm not switching back. As said previously, the Newman courses are great.
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