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Topic: I've been mimed!!! |
Dennis Russell
From:
California, USA
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Posted 2 Oct 2014 12:38 pm |
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Last year I played some PSG on a few tracks of a friend's (actually, more of an acquaintance) album. Today, a mutual friend shares the guy's video premiere of one of the songs on Facebook. In the video, the guy is shown playing bottleneck of what is the song's signature lick, originally played by me on PSG. BTW-it was a single-note melodic lick, so it could possibly look and sound somewhat like the "correct" instrument.
My musical input has never been mimed before. Still trying to sort out how I feel about it.
_________________
ETS S10, Fender Champion 6 string lap steel, Magnatone 6 string lap steel, Johnson Dobro, 1961 Fender Bassman, Fender Blues Jr., Fender Mustang III |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 2 Oct 2014 1:13 pm
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For starters you will need to come to terms with the fact that regardless of what you THINK you recall, clearly you played it on slide guitar. Video. Does. Not. Lie.
Second, thank the heavens that they didn't put the guy in mime white-face. |
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 2 Oct 2014 6:57 pm
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| It would have been respectful for your acquaintance to have let you mime yourself. If you feel bad about what happened, its because you are right in feeling bad about it. I hope I understand the situation correctly...I could go on. Chalk it up to Lead Singer Disease and find gentleman to work with not Prom Queens. |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Kevin Raymer
From:
Chalybeate, Kentucky, USA
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Posted 2 Oct 2014 8:20 pm
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Was it a "pretty boy guitar player" that they got for his looks ??
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Kevin Raymer
Zum / Knaggs / Breedlove
Fractal Audio |
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Dennis Russell
From:
California, USA
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Posted 2 Oct 2014 11:02 pm
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Just to clarify the situation: The artist is a singer-songwriter from the east coast that I met last year while both of us were working on a show for a mutual friend out here in Los Angeles. The only face-to-face contact with the singer-songwriter was a couple of weekends.
When he found out I played PSG, the singer-songwriter asked if I'd be up to play on a few tracks of his upcoming independently released album, if I had recording gear and could send him tracks via email and drop box. I had only been playing PSG for a year and a half at the time, so I told him to I'd be happy to give it a try and he could keep what he liked and I'd not be offended if he didn't use any of it. So, on this project my only contact was via the internet. Interestingly enough, after I sent him the last batch of tracks (back in November), I never heard from him directly, except for emails that he sends to his mailing list promoting his shows and musical projects.
Today, a friend of mine posted a share of the new premiere video from the singer-songwriter's soon to be released CD. I check it out, just to hear if he used my tracks. I initially wasn't looking at the video, until I heard my lick. I glance over and in the video the guy is shown playing the lick on bottleneck guitar. BTW--the video is somewhat conceptual, so there are no other musicians shown in the video except the singer-songwriter playing guitar.
I really don't care so much about getting any credit or not being seen in the video, after all, I was a 'session guy' for this and have never played live on this guy's projects. I am a bit perturbed that the video implies that he played the part on the recording, but hey, that kind of thing has happened to way more experienced and way better PSG players than me, so perhaps I should be flattered. I am a singer-songwriter as well, and I appreciate the additions that fellow musicians make to my recordings so much that I can't imagine doing anything to imply taking credit for their work and creativity. Just about all the singer-songwriters and musicians that are within the circles I normally run in have a similar attitude of gratitude for others that I do, so I guess I'm really having a hard time processing the video "untruth" of the matter.
I'm still waiting for the entire album to be released to hear if tracks I recorded were used on any other songs, and to see if I get a liner note credit at least.
_________________
ETS S10, Fender Champion 6 string lap steel, Magnatone 6 string lap steel, Johnson Dobro, 1961 Fender Bassman, Fender Blues Jr., Fender Mustang III |
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Peter den Hartogh
From:
Cape Town, South Africa
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Posted 3 Oct 2014 2:01 am
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Quote:
"I told him to I'd be happy to give it a try and he could keep what he liked
and I'd not be offended if he didn't use any of it."
Dennis, because you have been very accomodating with this person, it is possible
that he thought that he could do with your recordings whatever he wants.
Trying to find out WHO is right or WHAT is right will be pointless because
you gave him a license to make his own decisions without consulting you.
Next time just organize clear conditions up front.
For now, I would put this behind me and write it off as experience.
After that I would have piece of mind and get on with my life. |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 3 Oct 2014 6:50 am
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In response to the OP's more detailed explanation...
First...integrity matters...or rather it should...maybe only to me (and interestingly, to most of the drummers I know - maybe the lingering threat of being replaced by beat boxes has pushed them to clarify their personal standards)....
The commercial reality / judgement of society on music, particularly the way it is constructed in today's day and age is that integrity doesn't matter. Commercial music is crack - a synthetic experience for a dopamine deficient society. There are, of course, exceptions to this where deeply personal and authentic art gets a commercial following.
Self promotion, branding, moving up the ladder...eg. the business of music has become more 'important' than the music itself or the people who involve themselves in it. Aka, music has become a 'production system' and the absence of conscientious moral reasoning follows that model.
Which brings me to the observation that 'session guys' may not see it, but they are enthusiastic participants to a music production system that makes 'band guys' a disposable and antiquated fixture - the bonds of friendship, mutual commitment in a partnership framework no longer necessary (or even desirable) in the eyes of 'success oriented' band leads. Something may have to be shared, after all. Sharing and the deep narcissism that show business breeds are water and oil.
OP, you are on both ends of this deal...being a'session guy' is part of what makes the culture of disrespect possible, and viola, you were disrespected. It's all part of the commoditization of creative talent.
Build deeper relationships with those around you who naturally happen to share your values and understanding. |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 3 Oct 2014 10:30 am
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you played on the session. anything that happens after that is out of your hands. get used to it.
take comfort in the fact that the recording will probably go nowhere in the music world, as is usually the case. |
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Dennis Russell
From:
California, USA
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Posted 3 Oct 2014 10:38 am
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Tom, "deeper relationships with those around you who naturally happen to share your values and understanding" was what I was getting at towards the end my more detailed explanation. I have very deep and long-standing relationships with musicians in my circle, and we tremendously value each other's work, and appreciate our collaborations as musicians and artists.
I guess that because of the positivity and respect that I routinely encounter in my musical communities (amongst musicians, that is, clubs owners, promoters, etc are a whole other thing), I was pretty much floored when the "video thing" happened to me. Because we had worked on the project of a mutual friend, I thought this guy might have the same values as the communities I've bee a part. So, live and learn and move on and make more music.
To all of you who posted in this thread, thanks for letting me vent a little bit about this and your supportive comments.
_________________
ETS S10, Fender Champion 6 string lap steel, Magnatone 6 string lap steel, Johnson Dobro, 1961 Fender Bassman, Fender Blues Jr., Fender Mustang III |
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 3 Oct 2014 11:57 am
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| Can you post both versions of the song so we can hear the lick? |
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Dennis Russell
From:
California, USA
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Posted 3 Oct 2014 1:08 pm
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There is actually only one audio version of the song.
He is just showing himself playing the lick on bottleneck in the video, which has this one recorded version as the audio track. So it's kind of like the musicians in any music video miming their playing to the pre-existing track.
This is just the first time I've had someone else mime to my pre-recorded playing.
I'm thinking it must have been weird for those guys in the Wrecking Crew and other studio scenes to see people sync to their prerecorded tracks on shows like the Monkees and the Partridge Family, and in movies, etc. And I'm sure there are a bunch of folks here on the forum who've had similar experiences. For me, this time, it was just a bit reality bending.
_________________
ETS S10, Fender Champion 6 string lap steel, Magnatone 6 string lap steel, Johnson Dobro, 1961 Fender Bassman, Fender Blues Jr., Fender Mustang III |
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Jerry Hedge
From:
Norwood Ohio U.S.A.
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Posted 3 Oct 2014 6:04 pm
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| Now you know what being a studio musician is like. Think of how many times this happens to Emmons, Franklin, etc.I trust you were paid for the work on the session. Do you ever copy the things you hear on a record? If you're in a "cover band" do you try to sound like the guy on the record. Sometimes that's how people break in to studio work. A producer will hear a player on a demo and either hire that player for the master session, or in the case of Floyd Crammer, Chet Atkins heard the demo for "Please Help me I'm Falling" with this bent note playing on an accordion, gave a copy of the demo to Floyd, asked him to take the copy home, try to copy that style on piano to do the session the next day. And that's how the famous Floyd Crammer style from the 60's was born. |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Posted 3 Oct 2014 6:45 pm
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| Quote: |
| ...you played on the session. anything that happens after that is out of your hands. get used to it. |
True. I did a couple of sessions for a "sound library" company a few years ago. They wrote and recorded original instrumental music on spec to sell to companies for commercials, background music, etc. I later found out that one of my pedal steel instrumentals was used it a Porno film! ...She was wearing nothing but a cowboy hat, and she was moving to the sound of a pedal steel guitar. Thankfully my name was never associated with the project. 
_________________
My Site / My YouTube Channel
25 Songs C6 Lap Steel / 25 MORE Songs C6 Lap Steel / 16 Songs, C6, A6, B11 / 60 Popular Melodies E9 Pedal Steel |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 4 Oct 2014 9:40 am
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There were probably no bad intentions, just a thought that if you couldn't be there they would use something that looked okay to the audience. They probably didn't have a steel guitar handy when the filming took place.
But it makes you wonder how many videos you can trust.
A few years back they took an excerpt from a Humphrey Bogart movie and used it for an advert, getting him to say things he never said. There was a lot of bad feedback for them at the time. It must border on libel. |
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