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Topic: Do you tune to A440, A442, A??? .... and why? |
Pete Nicholls
From:
Macon, Georgia, USA
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Posted 4 Sep 2014 2:10 am |
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Curious how you tune and why ... I'm sure there will be much to be learned from the responses!
_________________
Justice The Judge SD-10, 2007
Justice Pro Lite SD-10, 2011
Quilter Steelaire
Quilter Labs Tone Block 202 Head
Roland Cube 80-XL
American Stratocaster - Yamaha Bass Guitar
1 Fender Telecaster Nashville Edition
Ham Call: N4BHB |
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Scott Duckworth
From:
Etowah, TN Western Foothills of the Smokies
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Posted 4 Sep 2014 3:45 am
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Buddy Emmons E9 Tempered Tuning... because it was the only one that sounded right.
_________________
Amateur Radio Operator NA4IT (Extra)
http://www.qsl.net/na4it
I may, in fact, be nuts. However, I am screwed onto the right bolt... Jesus! |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 4 Sep 2014 5:10 am
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I'm currently using the Newman 442.5 that is in the Peterson and Sonic Research tuners.
I tuned using a modified Newman at 440 for 25 years. I had tried the 442.5 and never liked it as it "just didn't sound right". When I got a new tuner I tried it again and totally different, it sounded right and my guitar tuning "fell in place". That was about two years ago and I've been using it ever since. I use the 442.5 on both my Franklin D-10 and my wife's GFI Expo S-10. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 4 Sep 2014 7:36 am
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I tune @ 440, and very close to JI. That way, my open "E" is dead-on with the guitar player's "E" and "A" chords. It's all personal preference, I guess, but I can do this because the guitars I play regularly have negligible cabinet drop.  |
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Tim Whitlock
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 4 Sep 2014 7:47 am
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I tune the roots to 442. This keeps the thirds from being too flat. My tuner is too jumpy to allow me to find "18 cents flat", or whatever, so after the roots are set I tune the rest by ear.
Last edited by Tim Whitlock on 4 Sep 2014 7:55 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 4 Sep 2014 7:51 am
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This topic seems to come round pretty regularly. To judge by his title, on this occasion I think Pete is asking what pitch standard, not what system of temperament.
I'm speaking of musical instruments in general when I say that what is technically in tune can sound uninteresting and subjectively "flat" in the everyday sense. So tuning to (say) 442 can make you feel and sound more "on top". Of course if everyone tries it you get pitch inflation, and singers (and players of vintage horns) start to struggle.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 4 Sep 2014 8:02 am
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I use a Boss-TU12 (has a needle, and the number 440 appears in the "Straight-up", 12-o'clock high, needle position).
I tune my E notes so they are a little sharp of "straight-up" when no pedals are engaged, and a little flat of "straight-up" when the A+B pedals are engaged.
Try this on your steel, and see if the open E's are different between open, and AB down. I set it so it hovers equally over "Straight-up".
So my open E's are a hair sharp of "Straight-up" (I think this is probably somewhere between 440 and 442).
Then I basically tune the beats out of all the open and pedal'd chords, which turns out to be pretty close to JI.
I play with bands regularly, with guitars/bass and keyboards, and I like they way it sounds with all the other instruments. Sounds in-tune with the band to me. |
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Pete Nicholls
From:
Macon, Georgia, USA
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Posted 4 Sep 2014 8:18 am
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I have been tuning to 442 and my intonation has improved. I use a 15/16 bar and have good visibility of the fret markers, but at 440, I was really crowding the fret markers. I hope one day to be able to play without looking at the fret markers!
_________________
Justice The Judge SD-10, 2007
Justice Pro Lite SD-10, 2011
Quilter Steelaire
Quilter Labs Tone Block 202 Head
Roland Cube 80-XL
American Stratocaster - Yamaha Bass Guitar
1 Fender Telecaster Nashville Edition
Ham Call: N4BHB |
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Scott Duckworth
From:
Etowah, TN Western Foothills of the Smokies
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Posted 4 Sep 2014 8:34 am
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My tuner itself is set for A=440.
_________________
Amateur Radio Operator NA4IT (Extra)
http://www.qsl.net/na4it
I may, in fact, be nuts. However, I am screwed onto the right bolt... Jesus! |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 4 Sep 2014 10:38 am
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| Whatever pitch you would like to tune to, you're stuck with what the rest of the band tunes to, especially instruments such as the piano' which cannot be easily retuned. How do wind instrument players handle that? |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 4 Sep 2014 12:14 pm
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Modern brass instruments, because there is considerable variation in pitch around the world, are generally built with a fair bit of leeway on the tuning slides. If you have to tune a long way from normal it can throw your intonation for a while, but you cope.
Tougher on woodwind instruments, which have to be built to a fixed pitch. Any attempt to move the tuning very far by adjusting the mouthpiece puts all the holes into the wrong places.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Henry Matthews
From:
Texarkana, Ark USA
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Posted 4 Sep 2014 1:16 pm
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I tune my E's about 2 cents sharp and then temper rest of strings to E's. Just sounds more in tune with band to me. I believe being a little sharp is a lot better sounding than being a little flat.
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Henry Matthews
D-10 Magnum, 8 &5, dark rose color
D-10 1974 Emmons cut tail, fat back,rosewood, 8&5
Nashville 112 amp, Fishman Loudbox Performer amp, Hilton pedal, Goodrich pedal,BJS bar, Kyser picks, Live steel Strings. No effects, doodads or stomp boxes. |
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Pete Nicholls
From:
Macon, Georgia, USA
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Posted 4 Sep 2014 1:58 pm
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| Alan Brookes wrote: |
| Whatever pitch you would like to tune to, you're stuck with what the rest of the band tunes to... |
I don't play in the open position, so I am able to play in tune with the rest of the band. The challenge comes when you have other instruments in the band that are not quite tuned with each other ... which one do you listen to?
_________________
Justice The Judge SD-10, 2007
Justice Pro Lite SD-10, 2011
Quilter Steelaire
Quilter Labs Tone Block 202 Head
Roland Cube 80-XL
American Stratocaster - Yamaha Bass Guitar
1 Fender Telecaster Nashville Edition
Ham Call: N4BHB |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 4 Sep 2014 2:47 pm
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| Pete Nicholls wrote: |
| The challenge comes when you have other instruments in the band that are not quite tuned with each other ... which one do you listen to? |
Listen to the girl singer. |
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Tracy Sheehan
From:
Fort Worth, Texas, USA
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Posted 4 Sep 2014 3:00 pm Tuning 440.
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As i started on fiddle and piano I always tuned 440. When I started steel soon after I tuned to D9th so I had an open A string on the steel also. I always tuned my A to 440 as that was the accepted concert pitch. I tuned to an A440 tuning fork and tuned the rest of the strings by ear.
Years later when electronic tuners came out I had no use for them except to quickly re tune to a tuning I had done by ear so I would be in tune with the rest of the band. IMO electronic tuners sucked as too many came to rely on them which was great for the ones whom did not have much of an ear for music.
In my early years the piano drove me up the wall as that was before I learned no instrument can be in perfect tune in every key except I have always heard the French horn can but I do not know this for sure. Just read it some where back in the dark ages before fire was discovered. This is only my opinions. Tracy |
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Ken Campbell
From:
Ferndale, Montana
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Posted 4 Sep 2014 4:38 pm
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Quote :Listen to the girl singer.
Yeah |
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Bill L. Wilson
From:
Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 4 Sep 2014 6:32 pm 442 Because.
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| When I bought my Emmons LeGrande II, I was handed a Neuman tuning chart. So I've tuned E's to 442, and everything else by ear ever since. I had never heard of such a tuning, and thought it was crazy, but after trying it, I started playing in tune, and I'm sold on it. |
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Bobby Snell
From:
Austin, Texas
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Posted 4 Sep 2014 6:55 pm
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Live work, 440 because everyone uses tuners.
On E9: Open E's, (pulled)A's, B's - - I have to have them in tune with the guitar players. F#'s sound good at 440, as part of the open B chord. Lots of songs drive me to use open stings in those related keys.
I flat the G#'s a bit and the pulls that give thirds, but have the 5 string C-pedal change to 440.
On C6: Pretty much straight 440. On a guitar with the 3d string C-C#, that's a bit flat.
Studio work can call for tuning to the song...including adjusting pulls according to the key and where to play it.
Interesting thread so we can see how individual the approaches are to the tuning compromises we all make. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 5 Sep 2014 3:20 am
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Tracy - there's nothing special about the French horn intonation-wise. What you probably read is how once upon a time it had no valves and could only play in one key; then it got valves and could play in any. The discovery of fire must come into this somewhere because of the soldering involved 
I tune by ear because like you I learned music when the only tuners were forks. Pianos still drive me up the wall - at least now I'm old enough to understand the science of why.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 5 Sep 2014 9:56 am
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| Ian Rae wrote: |
| ...Tougher on woodwind instruments, which have to be built to a fixed pitch. Any attempt to move the tuning very far by adjusting the mouthpiece puts all the holes into the wrong places. |
That's what I thought. Without going off-topic, when I record Early Music I tune all my instruments to a glockenspiel/xylophone, which cannot be tuned, and that tuning concides with my recorders. (Woodwind recorders, that is, not electronic recorders.) |
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Marco Schouten
From:
Amsterdam, The Netherlands
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Posted 5 Sep 2014 9:57 am
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I take the middle road: 441
_________________
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JCH SD-10 with BL XR-16 pickup, Sho-Bud Volume Pedal, Evidence Audio Lyric HG cables, Quilter Steelaire combo |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 5 Sep 2014 11:59 am
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| Earnest Bovine wrote: |
| Pete Nicholls wrote: |
| The challenge comes when you have other instruments in the band that are not quite tuned with each other ... which one do you listen to? |
Listen to the girl singer. |
That's assuming that she's not tone deaf.
Laboratory experiments have shown that when opera singers are told to sing without any backing they immediately revert to Natural Temperament, although when with an orchestrs they sing in Equal Temperament. I think when we sing our ears are trained to fit in with whatever others are playing. If you think about it, we make these adjustments continually. For instance, when you slide from one note to the other, you create an infinite number of notes between where your bar starts and stops, all of which are out-of-tune. The same goes for guitarists pushing strings, vibrato from the fiddle players, and the natural slurring of singers, especially blues and jazz singers. So the music contains all sorts of disharmonics which the mind accepts according to certain rules of music, which seem to center around being in tune on the beats.
That having been said, the band leader, Joe Loss, when up before the court for speeding, said that he knew the police radar machine was incorrect because whenever he drove his car at 30 m.p.h. in 4th gear his engine made a certain note, and he was pitch perfect. The court then tested his abilities and he was right, so the case was dismissed.
They should have asked him what pitch he was asking his orchestra to tune to.  |
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Dave Magram
From:
San Jose, California, USA
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Posted 5 Sep 2014 12:17 pm
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I have found Larry Bell’s tuning method to work very well, since it centers around E at “440†(“straight-up†on tuner), but automatically compensates for any “cabinet drop†on each individual guitar—which no other method seems to do. Very clever, Larry!
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Tuning the E chord to compensate for detuning (cabinet drop, axle flex, etc.)
1. Push your A and B pedals and release a few times, then HOLD THE A & B PEDALS DOWN (ENGAGED).
Tune the E notes to be STRAIGHT UP (0 deflection) WITH THE A and B PEDALS ENGAGED
2. Release your A and B pedals (NO PEDALS ENGAGED)
Check your E strings. They should be 4-8 cents sharp (441-442 on the Hertz scale)
Tune the B's the same offset as the E's; if the E's are 4 cents sharp, tune the B's 4 cents sharp
(Rest of instructions at: http://www.larrybell.org/id32.htm )
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One reason why this works so well is that it maintains an accurate interval between the 1 (E) and the 5 (B)—and adjusts to each individual guitar to compensate for cabinet drop.
Since I have an Emmons push-pull (which is initially tuned with raises engaged), in Step 1 above I tune my A chord (As, C#s, and Es) with both A&B pedals down.
Then I follow Step 2 above for the Bs, and G#s.
After that, I check the rest of the strings as Larry describes on his website-- which is very similar to Jeff Newman’s original JI offsets based on (E= “440â€). Works great!
Thanks, Larry!
-Dave |
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Robert Parent
From:
Gillette, WY
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Posted 5 Sep 2014 12:42 pm
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Straight up (440).... The reason is so I play in-tune with others in the group.
For years I fought tuning battles and tried the various approaches. After a few weeks of straight up, no more tuning battles. It's been a decade or more since the change.
Robert |
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Floyd Havner
From:
Modesto, California, USA
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Posted 5 Sep 2014 1:38 pm
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Friends tell me that I have been blessed with a God given ability to hear tone. Seeing that every string on the E9th relates to another string, I tune the 3rd string with a tuning meter to 436.5 and the other 9 I tune by ear using a pedal or two. Since I got an issue resolved with one of my steels, unless the strings have gone bad, they stay in tune. I check it all occasionally with a tuning meter using the Jeff Newman tempered tuning chart to make sure I can still hear. In a noisy environment however I rely on the tuner with the Newman chart. I post this not boasting but thankful for the gift. At the top of my list of pet peeves is trying to play with me or someone else out of tune. Nuf said.
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2003 Carter D10, 2010 Carter D10, Digitech RP350, Nady stereo power amp, and Eminence EPS-15C speakers. |
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