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Topic: universal 12 |
Cody Angel
From:
Nashville, Tn
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Posted 2 Sep 2014 12:07 pm |
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I met General Eddie Long the other night at a show and am giving serious thought to switching to a U12. I have heard Franklin say that the uni tuning had too many compromises for him to work with. I am wondering what the guys who have used or do use it have to say about the pros and cons of the single tuning. I love the idea of having the big chords lay out on the Kroger neck but don't want to cheat myself by not having separate tunings.
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MSA Legend XL, Quilter Amps, Peterson Tuners. |
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 2 Sep 2014 2:12 pm
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It sounds like you would be fine with an S12U.
The only guys who know what what they would be missing are the guys who know what they would be missing because they have played another tuning for so long. |
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Rich Peterson
From:
Moorhead, MN
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Posted 2 Sep 2014 2:21 pm
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It would be helpful to the community for Paul Franklin and others to list compromises of U12, so you and others could contrast that with the advantages. Paul uses a particularly complex C6 tuning, which many guitars might not handle, so if you are not driving a Franklin guitar, his caution may not apply.
http://b0b.com/tunings/pf_c6.htm |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 2 Sep 2014 3:08 pm
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The compromises take two forms:
1) there's no D string, and you have to either lower the E to D or raise the B. Many do both.
2) if you have lots of changes beyond 3 and 5 and 5 and 2 on the C6th neck, you can't easily have everything. My Zum has 8 and 7 (with two pedals doing double duty), and my MonsterBud SD-12 will have 10 and 7, and I can think of two levers I'd like to have that I can't place.
THAT SAID, a clever player can do with 3 and 5 what Jimmy Crawford needed everything at his disposal to do. I want all those changes because:
1)I know how to use them and put them to use. I may not know everything they can do, but I know how to use them to play like me.
2) I'm not as good as Lloyd, I can't think that fast, and it's easier to let my guitar do the thinking than make my brain do it.
BTW, my changes aren't really extravagant.
I have a P0 that raises 1 and 2 to G# and E, the Franklin drop of 5 and 10 on P5 (next to C), E raises, E lowers, RKL raises 1 to G and drops 6 to F#, RKR lowers 2 and 9. On C6, I have 5 pedals: 4, 6, 7, 8 and a pedal that raises 3 and 7 to C#. Knees raise 4 and 8 to Bb, one knee is P5, one knee lowers 4 to G# and 8 to G, and then the standard 3rd string drop.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Cody Angel
From:
Nashville, Tn
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Posted 2 Sep 2014 3:39 pm
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I have used the C neck very little. Learned nightlife from tab and stumbled through some steely dan. And I just want an Emmons style setup, nothing too crazy. Thanks for your responses guys and any others would be very helpful! For reference that might help y'all help me, I'm looking to add flavor chords to what im doing and play swing more appropriate and in depth that the E neck allows.
_________________
MSA Legend XL, Quilter Amps, Peterson Tuners. |
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 2 Sep 2014 4:08 pm
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| What did Cowboy Eddie Long tell you? |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 2 Sep 2014 5:38 pm
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Cody, if you just want the basics AND your E9th setup isn't too extravagant, the only compromise is in the lack of a low D, which CAN be worked around.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 2 Sep 2014 7:38 pm
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I found having both a U12 and a D10 in my music room helped me learn more about each of them.
When I play the E9 neck of the D10, I miss the lower strings the U12 has...moreso than I miss the missing D string on the uni.
I believe the extended range of the uni tuning is more powerful than the changes I might be missing on the B6 side - at least for what I do.
I want to experiment with a universal E6,9,13 tuning someday. I did a comparative analysis against the E9/B6 and it was more powerful yet. |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 3 Sep 2014 9:16 am
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| has cowboy been promoted to general? |
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Christopher Woitach
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 3 Sep 2014 11:12 am
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I can completely understand how a double neck makes much fuller use of both tunings, but my Bb6 Uni 12 fulfills my needs very very well indeed. A very big tuning, indeed. Plenty of country there, for my needs, and a terrific jazz tuning.
_________________
Christopher Woitach
cw@affmusic.com
www.affmusic.com |
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Larry Bell
From:
Englewood, Florida
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Rich Peterson
From:
Moorhead, MN
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Posted 3 Sep 2014 5:58 pm
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| I wonder if anyone who started on a universal switched after a few years because of the compromises. |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 3 Sep 2014 7:44 pm
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| compromised from what? if you started on a uni, that's what you know. |
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mike nolan
From:
Forest Hills, NY USA
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Posted 3 Sep 2014 8:02 pm
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I have D-10 guitars, S-10 guitars, and a Uni they are all slightly different animals. I really like the Uni, and will keep one around. There are things that I miss from the other tunings, but not that much. The uni used as one big tuning is a great instrument, and, in my case breaks me out of some cliche standard lick playing.
In the end, your style and musical taste/ability might be the biggest factor in your ultimate choice of tuning. |
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Cody Angel
From:
Nashville, Tn
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Posted 3 Sep 2014 10:44 pm
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Cowboy was telling me that he thought, from how I talked about what I liked and want to do, that I would dig the tuning. I'm thinking I would have 8x6 if I put one together. To have my 1 and 2 string raise on an inside left. Raise e's outside left, lower 2 a and 8 to d on inside left on 12 string. Lower e's inside right, raise 1 and 7 to g, lower 2 to c#.
_________________
MSA Legend XL, Quilter Amps, Peterson Tuners. |
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Dennis Detweiler
From:
Solon, Iowa, US
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Posted 4 Sep 2014 8:45 pm
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I played a D-10 for 8 years before going to U-12. I set up my early U-12 with D9th/D6th which was before the U-12 tuning was standardized. Now playing E9/B6 with 7+5. The D string gets in the way of the B6th tuning for chord work and has to be injected with a knee lever. However, I like pulling my B string to D. Some very nice low harmony movement is capable with B to D. I also tune my 2nd string to C# and raise it to D# along with the B to D (string 9). The open C# (string 2) adds a 9th note to the B6th tuning. It makes more sense to me to raise C# to D# for both tunings. I found myself using it more often in this manner.
It's a luxury to be able to move in and out of both tunings instantly in the middle of some songs. It opens the door to some creativity and personal style.
There's my sales pitch!  The Universal has fit me well for 38 years playing full time, weekend warrior and studio.
_________________
1976 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics 427 pickup, 1975 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics X-12 pickup, Revelation preamp, Carbon Copy Delay and Hall Of Fame Reverb, Crown XLS 1002, 2- 15" Eminence Wheelhouse speakers, ShoBud Pedal, Effects Pedals. 1949 Epiphone D-8. |
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Dennis Detweiler
From:
Solon, Iowa, US
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Posted 5 Sep 2014 5:48 am
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----LL--V--LR---RL-RR---4----5----6----7
F#
C#-D#
G#
E----------------F---Eb
B-------Bb--------------------------------C#
G#---------F#----------------------------A#
F#-----------------------------F
E----------------F---Eb-------------D
B---D--------------------C
G#---------F#
E-------------------------Eb---F
B-------------------------G#--C#
Pedals 1,2,3 are standard A,B,C E9th. I pull all three G# to A with pedal B
_________________
1976 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics 427 pickup, 1975 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics X-12 pickup, Revelation preamp, Carbon Copy Delay and Hall Of Fame Reverb, Crown XLS 1002, 2- 15" Eminence Wheelhouse speakers, ShoBud Pedal, Effects Pedals. 1949 Epiphone D-8. |
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Dennis Detweiler
From:
Solon, Iowa, US
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Posted 5 Sep 2014 6:07 am
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My George Board 8 string lap with wrist lever A6/B9
B
C#
A
F#
E---Eb
C#
A
F#
_________________
1976 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics 427 pickup, 1975 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics X-12 pickup, Revelation preamp, Carbon Copy Delay and Hall Of Fame Reverb, Crown XLS 1002, 2- 15" Eminence Wheelhouse speakers, ShoBud Pedal, Effects Pedals. 1949 Epiphone D-8. |
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Dustin Rhodes
From:
Owasso OK
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Posted 5 Sep 2014 6:30 am
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| I've wondered about U-12 for my first pedal steel. I play non-pedal on my D8 but have wanted to jump into pedal. Would it be better to learn 10 first then 12 or just learn the U-12 tuning from the ground up? |
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Dennis Detweiler
From:
Solon, Iowa, US
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Posted 5 Sep 2014 6:33 am
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Start on U-12 and save money and time.
_________________
1976 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics 427 pickup, 1975 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics X-12 pickup, Revelation preamp, Carbon Copy Delay and Hall Of Fame Reverb, Crown XLS 1002, 2- 15" Eminence Wheelhouse speakers, ShoBud Pedal, Effects Pedals. 1949 Epiphone D-8. |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 5 Sep 2014 9:10 am
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| Rich Peterson wrote: |
| I wonder if anyone who started on a universal switched after a few years because of the compromises. |
I started on U-12 (shortly after beginning with a Carvin 10 string). It was OK but about 5 years later I tried 12 string ext E9 and liked it better immediately. Even tho I wanted to play non-country stuff, I felt that E9 is a more versatile tuning, as long as I can load it up with lots of pedals & levers. I still feel that way. |
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Les Cargill
From:
Oklahoma City, Ok, USA
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Posted 5 Sep 2014 7:07 pm
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| Lane Gray wrote: |
| Cody, if you just want the basics AND your E9th setup isn't too extravagant, the only compromise is in the lack of a low D, which CAN be worked around. |
I suspect a perfectly useable U12 could have a D on the 9th string, then B, G# and E on the 10th, 11th and 12th respectively. That low B is really in the bass player's knitting anyway. It has a thonky tone, like an old hollowbody electric bass with too short a scale. It doesn't sound like the other strings. A P-bass has a 34" scale length. A steel is a whole lot shorter than that.
Even on Paul Franklin's monster C6 copedent, I count about three pulls on the low C. |
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Niels Andrews
From:
Salinas, California, USA
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Posted 6 Sep 2014 4:07 am
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Does what the current best steel player in the World feel is a compromise really apply to Joe average?
_________________
Die with Memories. Not Dreams.
Good Stuff like Zum S-12, Wolfe Resoport
MSA SS-12, Telonics Combo. |
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 6 Sep 2014 6:53 am
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| I was once told that the goal is not to copy the pro's but to get the pro's to copy you. |
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Dennis Detweiler
From:
Solon, Iowa, US
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Posted 6 Sep 2014 12:06 pm
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Leaving the D on the 9th string and B G# E is referred to as extended E9th. Even if I played a single 10 string, I would put the B string at the 9th and add a G# for the 10th and pull my B to D. I just like the B to D pull. And, I could still get B6th strum chord as long as the D wasn't there, plus some 6th standard pedal pulls. But, that's me.
I think it was Emmons that once said, "copying is easy, creating is what's hard."
_________________
1976 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics 427 pickup, 1975 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics X-12 pickup, Revelation preamp, Carbon Copy Delay and Hall Of Fame Reverb, Crown XLS 1002, 2- 15" Eminence Wheelhouse speakers, ShoBud Pedal, Effects Pedals. 1949 Epiphone D-8. |
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