What is considered "Emmons original"?

Larry Robertson · From: Denver, Colorado, USA

Obviously push/pulls, did any come from the factory with more than 4 knee levers? Also, what modifications would take an "original" out of the "original" category? Pickup changes? Adding knee levers? Mods to improve playability? (ie: removing pedal return springs, replaced collars or bell cranks) and to what extent do changes from "original" affect the value of the guitar, all other conditions being equal? I realize opinions may vary, but am curious as to what opinions are out there. Thanks, Larry Robertson
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Doug Beaumier · From: Northampton, MA

The term "Emmons Original" means a push/pull. That term came into use in the early 1980s when Emmons Co. switched over to an all-pull changer, and the players needed some way to describe the old style vs. the new style. It does not mean "original parts".

Regarding after market parts and restorations in general, there seems to be no obsession about "all original" parts in the pedal steel world, unlike the vintage guitar world. In fact, restorations usually enhance the value and desirability of pedal steels, if they are done well. Like houses and cars, restorations are a plus, unlike furniture, antiques, and old guitars. That's probably due to the mechanical nature of out favorite instrument. Cool

Back in the 1960s a lot of Emmons guitars were custom orders (pedal and lever setup). The early S-10s usually came with 6 pedals and no knee levers. Most of them were later converted to 3 pedals and 3 or 4 levers. I bought a new D-10 in 1978 and it came with 3 x 4, and I still use that setup today. The p/p rebuilds we see today with 8 knee levers are likely after market levers. It doesn't hurt the value, and probably enhances it.
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Eric Philippsen · From: Central Florida USA

I would agree with Doug when he says that there isn't the obsession with originality as one sees, often to the extreme, in the vintage guitar and amp market. Keeping in mind that the earliest push-pulls were often built with no knee levers, it is extremely common to see any number of those added later. So, that's almost a shrug-of-the-shoulders when I see that modification.

However, I have more often than not seen knee levers added where the installation has been very poor and the hardware used for those to be of poor quality or construction. I end up having those ripped out and replaced.

Last, I think that changed pickups has a negative impact on a push-pull's value. Just my opinion. Thanks.

Doug Beaumier · From: Northampton, MA

I agree about the pickups. IMO it's far better to have the original pickup rewound, if necessary, than put in a new, different pickup.
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Craig A Davidson · From: Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin USA

I was always told that the true originals had the wide pedals as opposed to the later model push-pulls with the LeGrande type pedals.

Larry Robertson · From: Denver, Colorado, USA

I think that all you guys opinions are widely held and are about the same as mine. It's pretty hard to keep these guitars running and improving without having some kind of mod that changes them. Since all players come in different sizes, and players desired set-up varies, and parts do wear out and need changing (however, breakage and wear is rare from what I hear), it is only common sense that most push/pull Emmons steel will have modifications to them. Thus the word "original" would apply to the design, rather than the current parts configuration compared to how it left the factory. I have heard the phrase and thought I would find out what our community in general thinks.
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MSA D-10, Carter U12, Fessy SDU-12,Emmons P/P D-10, Emmons P/P U-12,Emmons S-10 ShoBud SuperPro, Lap steel, keyboards, 6-string Guitars.. too many

Jack Strayhorn · From: Winston-Salem, NC

When I met Ron Lashley Sr. in 1985 the term Original was used to distinguish between the push-pull and the all-pull LeGrande. The term was used as such during my 12 years with the company.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

I think you could call a push-pull original as long as upgrades were done with Emmons, or Emmons-style parts.
Marlen or other pull-release parts, or home-built parts that don't look like Emmons parts tend to turn it into a regrettable Frankensteel.
And people like the Emmons so much that they react more harshly to that happening to an Emmons than a Marlen or Zum or.....
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Doug Beaumier · From: Northampton, MA

chas smith R.I.P. · From: Encino, CA, USA

Larry Robertson · From: Denver, Colorado, USA

Wow Chas! That looks sweet! And that is exactly the kind of mod I am thinking of. Makes the guitar work the way the owner wants it to work, well executed design & install, but not original. To my mind, it doesn't devalue the guitar, and maybe even enhances it because it has increased the usability. I also agree with Lane that botched mods, either design or install, can wreak havoc on the playability of a guitar. That would definitely devalue it IMHO
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MSA D-10, Carter U12, Fessy SDU-12,Emmons P/P D-10, Emmons P/P U-12,Emmons S-10 ShoBud SuperPro, Lap steel, keyboards, 6-string Guitars.. too many

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Chas, I LOVE that reverser. BUT to the cork-sniffers (remember I'm not one of them), that's NOT cricket.
I really dig that.
Tres cool. And since you don't plan to sell it, it's not a problem. But I don't know that anyone would call it original...
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Ian Worley · From: Sacramento, CA

Chas, that is extra cool. Could you share where you found those particular spur gears?

chris ivey · From: california (deceased)

that's nice. i've got some old meccano parts kind of like that. i've held onto them for 60 years. you never know when you might need something like that.

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

This is the answer to the question:

chas smith R.I.P. · From: Encino, CA, USA

Lane, obviously I'm ok with 'not original' most of the time. I knew about this guitar back in the early 90s, but the owner wouldn't sell it. Fast forward to around 10 years ago, it turned up on ebay, but because it had the Emmons "hood ornament" instead of the decal, the Forum boys were down-mouthing it and I was able to snag it out the back door. It was suggested that I change it back to the decal, and I thought about it, but it wasn't a simple fix and since I was able to get it, because of it, I kept it "original".

Now, this next guitar is Maurice Anderson's S-10 Bigsby and it was a total hack job underneath. Someone (who we all knew) had tried to install a rack and barrel undercarriage, with bent over nails, and had hacked up the fingers and tried to install them in a bird-cage changer...need I say more. Granted, what I did is kind of a sacrilege, in my book, but the guitar was so f*cked up, I did it any way. You don't see a lot of Bigsbys with knee levers.

Ian, like Chris Ivey says, I had them in the "collection". I had a number of small gears and I have no idea where I got them. This was what I did for the reverses on the Professional that I rebuilt around 20 years ago. It was a basket-case I got out of a pawn shop in Vegas. Keep in mind that there's a 3/4" height difference between the necks.

E-lever.

D-lever, RKR

LKR_C6

Skip Edwards · From: LA,CA

Chas... have you ever considered going into the making steel guitars biz... you just might make dozens of $$...

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Eric Philippsen · From: Central Florida USA

I enjoy looking at well-engineered mods and upgrades. Playing them can also be a fun experience.

I also get a real kick out of opening up a case and seeing an old steel that is 100% original and never been modded. Invariably, the word "whoa" passes silently across my lips when that happens. Nowadays that's so rare.

Even so, originality can have a downside.

Case in point, I ran across an Emmons S10 that was 6+1. It was original and unchanged right down to the old Emmons string packages in the case. As Doug also mentioned, many push-pulls were made in that configuration prior to knee levers becoming more and more popular. I purchased it with the tough realization that it'll probably have to be changed to a more popular copedant. It still sits in its case though. Takes me a long time to get over the mental hurdle of making such a change.

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