Changer Troubles '79 Emmons GS-10

John Gorlewski · From: Illinois, USA

Hello All,

I recently acquired a '79 Emmons GS-10 that I got a good deal on (I hope) but had been sitting for quite some time. I was in the process of changing the strings, as the old ones were scuzzy and rusty (that's how long it had been), tuning the keys and the changer as I went from low to high. Everything was going okay until I hit string 6-G#. For some reason, when I went to lower the open string back down to the G#, after tuning the B pedal depressed A note, the string would not fall all the way back down to a G#. Even if I turned the endplate screw way too far, so it was not even touching the 'finger' at all. I can reach down there with my actual finger, and push it the rest of the way, but it will not do it by itself. After flipping the guitar over it saw that there were several fingers that appear not to be even touching the fingers, and so I expect more of the same trouble the further up I go.
I tried adding an extra few drops of oil to the changer (from below and above), but it did nothing. I also noted that some of the springs along the bottom of the guitar seemed stretched pretty much as far as they could go. Is this normal? Would moving one (or more) even further out solve my issue? Not that I have ever done that, but I would probably take a shot at it.
Here is a picture, and it is worth noting that there is no 3rd string G# on the guitar currently, and that is why that particular finger looks as it does, I suspect, as there is no string tension on it at all. I live about 3 hours away from the nearest steel tech (St. Louis) and so I would like to complete this set-up myself if at all possible, but this is my first Emmons P/P and things are a bit different down there...

Any ideas? Suggestions?

Many thanks,
John

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Check that the finger will go all the way from up against the body to the screw easily without a string on it (or if you already have the new strings on, loosen them a bit so they don't fight you too much).
The fingers should offer little (and preferably nearly no) resistance to movement, and string tension should absolutely bring it back to the cap screw.
I'd try putting a few drops of oil on the finger and working it back and forth repeatedly. It's probably just a combination of oil gunge and corrosion (ISTR they used steel for the fingers, which can rust). Once you get it free, it should be good to go for awhile.
The beauty of the push-pull is that it's so dead simple.
Hopefully it won't need a complete disassembly and cleanup. If it does, get Clem's book/DVD set.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

mike nolan · From: Forest Hills, NY USA

Since you are re stringing a guitar that had very old strings in unknown gauges, you will most likely encounter some problems with tuning and lever/pedal travel. What strings/gauges are you putting on? Nickel or Stainless? Wound or plain 6th?
Once you get it strung up, then forumites can be of more help.

When you push the finger back manually, does it then stay at the G# pitch, or pull back up?

I am assuming that you are familiar with the process for tuning a push pull guitar. If not, read this:

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=205028

The springs that hold the fingers to the body should not be super tight, just enough to hold against the body, then a bit more. The tension on these springs wouldn't contribute to the problem that you are having though.

You can also check to see if the cross shafts are binding. Sometimes these guitars warp and cause the cross shafts to bind.

Also, there seems to be a lot of dust, etc. in the bottom of the changer, some of which looks a bit waxy and yellowish, which is sometimes a sign that the dreaded WD 40 may have been sprayed into the changer at some point.... and that will really gum up the works.

richard burton · From: Britain

When the pedal is not pressed, there should be a gap between its bellcrank and raise collar (arrowed red in photo)

It could be that someone has adjusted the collars, and taken out all the slack.

Jim Palenscar · From: Oceanside, Calif, USA

It's hard to say what is goin on from here but I would loosen all of the collars on the raise pull rods for just the strings that also have lowers, then lower the strings that you want (the push part of the push-pull), hold the lowers in place, then set the raise collars to be sure that you are not restricting the lowers.

John Gorlewski · From: Illinois, USA

The slack is still in the collars, and you are right about the changer, it is definitely grubby. Also, it appears there may have been some water in the equation quite some time ago. I may not know much, but even I know not to use the WD Fish Juice on a changer.

I will try removing the offending string and seeing what kind of motion I get out of the finger when it should be relatively 'free and easy'. To answer Mike's question, when I push the finger back by hand, it does stay there. Until I move the pedal again, that is.

I will also add the type of strings I am using later, as well.

Thanks for the tips ,all.

John Gorlewski · From: Illinois, USA

SUCCESS!!!

Once I removed the string, I was able to basically work the bejesus out of the finger (and add a little more oil), and now things are working. It was not moving as freely as it should, even with no string at all. I will still get in there and clean things up, but at least I can start using and enjoying the guitar.

I also added a tiny bit more slack to the rod/collar assembly for that string. There was already some there, but since I was only looking for a tiny bit more movement out of the string, I added a tiny bit more.

I used the guitar at practice last night, and it filled the room with glorious twang. Since my normal practice steel is '50s Harlin Brothers with only 2 pedals connected, the improvement was pretty dramatic.

Thanks again, everybody!

John

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