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Topic: How about tuning my strings slightly sharp? |
Fred Glave
From:
McHenry, Illinois, USA
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Posted 21 Jan 2004 1:34 pm |
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I've noticed that when I practice WITHOUT playing along to music, I like to position the bar between the frets, versus directly over them. I can see where I am better. I seem to keep the bar positioned more accurately by seeing the fret and it's relationship with the angle of the bar.
However, when I am practicing along with music, being perfectly in tune means that my bar must be placed directly over the fret. I want to tune my strings slightly sharp so I can hang down a little lower than the fret. Does anyone see any landmines that I'm setting up? |
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Jerry Roller
From:
Van Buren, Arkansas USA
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Posted 21 Jan 2004 1:45 pm
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Fred, please force yourself to play on top of the frets. You need to learn correctly while you are forming your habits. If the guitar is in tune and you use a fret line for a reference for placing the bar you will be close. You still have to play with your ears for perfect pitch but you will always be in the ballpark. In my early years I was prone to play slightly flat (not square over the fret) and had to work to correct it. Now is the best time for you to learn correctly.
Jerry |
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C Dixon
From:
Duluth, GA USA
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Posted 21 Jan 2004 1:55 pm
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Jerry doth give words of wisdom.
May Jesus bless you in your quests,
carl |
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Todd Pertll
From:
Chicago, Illinois, USA
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Posted 21 Jan 2004 1:59 pm
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I always practiced with a metronome until about a month ago. Not I practice everything with a "Band in a Box" track. you get the benefit of a metronome, plus the rhythm tracks will keep you honest on your intonation. I'll never use a metronome to practice steel again.
I try to keep as many constants as possible between practice and gigs. I use the same stool, picks, bar, tuning. |
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Chris Collins
From:
Oban, Argyll, Scotland, United Kingdom
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Posted 21 Jan 2004 3:16 pm
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You must forget this idea of playing in between the frets. It is true of many new players that they rely on "seeing" where they are on the fretboard when playing. What you really need to learn (and it takes time and practice - lots of it) is the "hear" where you are. The fret markers are only a guide. The position of the bar relative to the fret marker will vary depending on your position when sat at the guitar, which fret you are at, bar size, to name a few. One little practice trick I used ( and still do ) is to get a midi file or band in a box (or similar) to play a very (and I mean VERY) slow scale. Then with your eyes shut play along with the file trying to get each note in tune. This will help to develop the skill of intonation as you have to rely on hearing where you are. It won't come overnight but the rewards are great if you keep at it. This skill is especially important when you are playing at the high end of the fret board where the notes are closer together and it is so easy to be out of tune.
Chris |
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Jim Whitaker
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 21 Jan 2004 7:16 pm
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I seem to play flat also because I still am trying to see the fret markers. Good advise about using a track it will help very much.
ps (If you tune slightly sharp you will always be sharp when playing open positions
E & A pedals down) Learn right it is easier in the long run.
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JIM
"Zum SD10 3/6 ""Carter SD10" "74" LTD & Session LTD, Profex II "55" Esquire, "63 Epiphone, "63" Precision,
"71" Jazz
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Al Marcus
From:
Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)
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Posted 21 Jan 2004 7:44 pm
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Chris brought up a good point. A steel player has to develope a good ear for accurate intonation, otherwise he is out of tune with the band, even if he tuned up the guitar correctly.....al 
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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/
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Carl West
From:
La Habra, CA, USA (deceased)
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Posted 22 Jan 2004 9:29 am
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Hey Fred, better watch that. First thing ya know is you'll develop that as a habit that's hard to break. Develop the ear intonation and use the frets.
Carl West |
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Ron Sodos
From:
San Antonio, Texas USA
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Posted 22 Jan 2004 9:33 am
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| I think a steel player of course has to watch his fret positioning. However, when you are on stage you have to focus more on your ear in order to sound in tune. I always try to listen to the bass player and adjust to him. The audience will hear the band sound in tune if the steel is in tune with the bass player. I think it has to do with the frequency. If you look at the signal from a bass. compared to a steel, fiddle, or guitar on an osciliscope, you will see how the bass has a wider wave and thus more dominant to the human ear. The audience will blame the other instruments if the bass is out of tune. Because the bass is so dominant, the other instruments tend to sound out of tune. I always focus my playing on the bass and have a reputation for sounding in real good tune. |
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 22 Jan 2004 9:34 am
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| FWIW, Newman says to tune to 442.5. |
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Joerg Hennig
From:
Bavaria, Germany
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Posted 22 Jan 2004 10:53 am
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| Quote: |
| FWIW, Newman says to tune to 442.5. |
Tune which strings to 442.5? I understand his tuning chart uses different values for the individual strings.
I don´t want to open up a can of worms here, but I really believe if all the others in the band tune to "440" and you´re the only one that doesn´t, you will be in trouble, unless maybe you NEVER EVER use any open strings, but even then you´ll have to do a lot of compensations with the bar. Whether you tune everything to "440" or not, IMO there is no way to be in tune with a band if you don´t agree on at least a reference note - the most practical for bands with any kind of guitars in them obviously seems open E and A (for E9 PSG: strings 3 and 6 with the B pedal down)- that is the same pitch for everyone. That´s what seems logical to me (and works for me), but maybe it´s just because I use those open strings a lot...
Regards, Joe H. |
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Fred Glave
From:
McHenry, Illinois, USA
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Posted 23 Jan 2004 8:55 am
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| Thanks everyone, I guess some shortcuts aren't worth taking. |
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Bobby Lee
From:
Cloverdale, California, USA
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Posted 23 Jan 2004 9:41 am
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Bill Hankey's invention, a fretboard in front of the strings, was designed to solve this very problem.
------------------
 Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax |
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Bobby Lee
From:
Cloverdale, California, USA
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Posted 23 Jan 2004 9:57 am
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Joe, Jeff's tuning chart puts some open notes slightly above A-440 equal temperament and some slightly below. They average out to be in tune with an A-440 equally tempered band.
In a band context, where each instrument has a different timbre and overtone series, small tuning differences in individual notes are barely noticable. Jeff tunes his roots and fifths slightly sharp and his thirds and sixths slightly flat, so that the ~14 cent difference straddles the ET center mark on the tuner. This is a very good solution, in my opinion, as it allows for the beauty of just-tuned chords without sounding out of tune with equal-tempered chords from the rest of the band.
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Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax |
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Joerg Hennig
From:
Bavaria, Germany
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Posted 23 Jan 2004 12:13 pm
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Thanks for the info, b0b. I still prefer working out my own tuning chart and use my own ear as a guide. My bandmates, and they are all fine musicians, all say it sounds great, so I guess I must be doing something right.
Joe H.[This message was edited by Joe Henry on 23 January 2004 at 12:15 PM.] |
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Eric West
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 23 Jan 2004 12:33 pm
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quote:
Q: Would tuning across the board to 440 make it unnecessary to tune sharp to 442.50 the way Jeff Newman and some others do or would that be too sharp to use?
BE: Sharp is sharp no matter how you slice it. I've never understood the theory of being sharper than the instruments you're playing with.
The only reason I can see is that most tele players mash their strings.
I can tell I've been "adjusting" for them when I wear "grooves" over my fret markers ( checked by rolling the bar slowly to where it "rests" on it's own) that are ever so slightly up on the frets. ( 1/32" or less)
I refuse to tune sharp to match fret mashers.
So shoot me.
EJL |
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C Dixon
From:
Duluth, GA USA
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Posted 23 Jan 2004 3:59 pm
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A PSG tuned according to Jeff's 442.5 chart WILL in most cases sound IN tune with instruments tuned to 440. Incidently the 442.5 refers mainly to the E's (E9th) and C's (C6). This was orignally 440 in each case, prior to Jeff's discovery that most of us were playing sharp of the frets, then he moved everything up by 2.5HZ.
I never realized that I was playing sharp of the frets until a fellow steel player called my attention to it. Sure enough he was correct. I DID know that my open A chord always sounded flat prior to going to the 442.5 reference. Now it sounds great. SO does the open E chord!!
There are several reasons why a PSG tuned this way sounds more in tune than one tuned off a 440 ref (E's). One is what b0b alluded to. The other one, and maybe just as important, is cabinet drop.
In any case, I agree with Jeff on this, and I have tried it both ways. It sounds wrong of course. But one cannot deny the results.
carl
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Savell
From:
Slocomb, AL
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Posted 23 Jan 2004 6:21 pm
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| . [This message was edited by Savell on 29 May 2005 at 07:02 PM.] |
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Bobby Lee
From:
Cloverdale, California, USA
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