| Author |
Topic: Copedent for Rock |
Rich Peterson
From:
Moorhead, MN
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Posted 29 Jul 2014 2:35 am |
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| What would be the best copedent for Classic Rock on an S10? |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 29 Jul 2014 3:19 am
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Basic E9, with a 0 pedal bringing 9, 7, 1 and 2 to the major chord.
But it really depends less on what you play than how you think and express yourself. But I could play the BTO/Molly Hatchet/Doobies/Kansas/Boston/Journey et al all night long on a 4&5 E9th guitar
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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John De Maille
From:
On a Mountain in Upstate Halcottsville, N.Y.
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Posted 29 Jul 2014 7:07 am
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| E-9th tuning..... 2 frets back from the open major ( no pedals on open ), rock off and on A+ B or B+C pedals. You can't do it all night, but, it works fine. Strings 8,6,5,4,3 plus1 picked judiciously work the best. It's hard to explain by writing it, just experiment. |
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 29 Jul 2014 7:19 am
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E9 has some things, you got to know where the minor pentatonic scales are located.
I've often wondered if the E6/E9 tuning ala Zane king/ Zane beck / al Marcus, etc., isn't perhaps better. e.g. an E6 / E9 tuning is a pentatonic scale. |
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 29 Jul 2014 7:25 am
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For Rock, I like being able to slide into and out of open-E and open A-chords at the the first fret, so I tune to Eb9/Bb6 on one one of my Uni's.
You can rock out at the first fret in E or A quite effectively in a Rock Band. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 29 Jul 2014 7:29 am
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With an A pedal or D# lever, lots of useful minor scales are n the E9th neck.
Not meaning to take anything from the King/Beck tuning, I still plan to give it a try.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Les Cargill
From:
Oklahoma City, Ok, USA
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Posted 29 Jul 2014 9:29 am
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| "Rock" isn't all one thing. There's Pink Floyd, Red Ryder, Elton John - all have used steel differently. |
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Larry Allen
From:
Kapaa, Kauai,Hawaii
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Posted 29 Jul 2014 9:34 am Copedant
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Extend your 10 to a low E and your 9 to a B...add the B to C# raise on your C pedal ( or A if it's a Day setup). I also lower the B to A with my A pedal...Rock out!! Larry 
_________________
Excel steels & Peavey amps,Old Chevys & Motorcycles & Women on the Trashy Side |
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Jamie Mitchell
From:
Nashville, TN
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Posted 29 Jul 2014 11:36 am
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| I'm doing what Larry suggested(ish) and it's working well for me... |
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 29 Jul 2014 3:35 pm
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| Larry: know of any youtube clips that demonstrate this? |
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Larry Allen
From:
Kapaa, Kauai,Hawaii
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Posted 29 Jul 2014 4:25 pm Copedant
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Tom, I don't, but 2 of the bands I play on do hard rockin tunes and blues and you can play the bottom strings just like a regular guitar..the copedant I came up with is this for a 10 string..I started using it in 1999. It also works well with ballads, etc and I can Chet style pick with it. ..Larry
 
_________________
Excel steels & Peavey amps,Old Chevys & Motorcycles & Women on the Trashy Side |
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 29 Jul 2014 8:14 pm
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| I have a uni, so I can get the e/b and more going, and have my e-f# on a knee so I can get the extended c pedal voicing you are getting, in review of your copedent. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 29 Jul 2014 10:53 pm
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It depends on the size of the band. If it's less than 5 pieces, you really do need a low E string for rhythm when the guitarist takes a solo. Otherwise, a modern E9th will handle everything else. All the notes are there, all the scales are there, all the chords are there.
For 3 decades I played 12 string E9th in bands that did a lot of classic rock. The low G# note wasn't used as much as the pedaled low A, and nowadays most guitars lower B to A to get that note. If you must play a 10 string in a 4-piece rock band, abandon the low D string and put a low E as your 10th string. You'll need it.
I suggest something like this:
| Tab: |
LKL LKV LKR P1 P2 P3 P4 RKL RKR
1 F# +G#
2 D# +E -C# -D
3 G# +A
4 E +F +F# -D#
5 B -A# +C# +C#
6 G# -F# +A +A
7 F#
8 E +F -D# -D
9 B -A# +C# -A
10 E
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Of course, your personal reflexes should be taken into account when setting up the knee levers. The point is to get a D on the 8th string, a low A on the 9th and have that low E on the 10th for rhythm parts.
It's very handy to have the 2nd string at C# and the 4th at D# at the same time. This gives you a lot of fast rock pentatonic riffs.
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 29 Jul 2014 11:52 pm
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Or, if you just have a simpler guitar with 3+4:
| Tab: |
LKL LKR P1 P2 P3 RKL RKR
1 F# +G
2 D# -D/C#
3 G# +A
4 E +F -D# +F#
5 B +C# +C#
6 G# +A -F#
7 F#
8 E +F -D# -D
9 B +C# -A
10 E |
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Rich Peterson
From:
Moorhead, MN
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Posted 30 Jul 2014 6:01 am
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| b0b wrote: |
I suggest something like this:
| Tab: |
LKL LKV LKR P1 P2 P3 P4 RKL RKR
1 F# +G#
2 D# +E -C# -D
3 G# +A
4 E +F +F# -D#
5 B -A# +C# +C#
6 G# -F# +A +A
7 F#
8 E +F -D# -D
9 B -A# +C# -A
10 E
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What would you suggest for Pedal 5? |
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Dwight Lewis
From:
Huntsville, Alabama
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Posted 30 Jul 2014 10:25 am ROCKCopedant
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I would sugges lowering your G# to G for the 5th pedal.
_________________
Dekley 7p4k(PRS-10C), BMI S12 5p5kn |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 30 Jul 2014 10:26 am
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I'd use a pedal 0 lowering both G#'s to G instead of a pedal 5. But that's just me. You really don't need more than 3p+4k to play classic rock, and it could be done with less! Everything beyond that is just personal preferences.
I see two main requirements for a rock copedent: power chords and pentatonic scales. To get the basic power chords you need a low E-B-E and A-E-A. I also like D-A-D, but it's not really required.
For fast pentatonic lead riffs, I use string 2 lowered to C# a lot, with and without string 4 lowered to D#. To me. the second string C# is an essential change for rock, much more than for country.
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Rich Peterson
From:
Moorhead, MN
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Posted 30 Jul 2014 12:45 pm
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| b0b wrote: |
For fast pentatonic lead riffs, I use string 2 lowered to C# a lot, with and without string 4 lowered to D#. To me. the second string C# is an essential change for rock, much more than for country. |
Perhaps tune it to C# no pedals. An E6 or call it E major pentatonic. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 30 Jul 2014 2:07 pm
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The string is tuned to D# for reasons that make sense in all kinds of music. I wouldn't retune it because then I'd need a lever to raise it to D and D# anyway. It's best to know how to play rock in the standard tuning so that you can sit in on other people's instruments. Almost everyone has a D# to C# knee lever change. Very few people tune the string to C#.
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 31 Jul 2014 9:02 am
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| Why not use RKR to raise the 9th string B to D like on my Kline Uni? |
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Clay Williams
From:
Minnesota, USA
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Posted 31 Jul 2014 11:46 am
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Here's what I use on my 8 string. Same tuning I had on my non-pedal steel. Dominant 7 handy, and the low 6 for relative minors without moving the bar.
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 1 Aug 2014 9:00 am
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I think that you have to make a distinction between blues and rock. Any tuning with the notes of a major chord will work well for blues. You don't even need pedals. Rock, on the other hand, can be quite intricate. Rock songs often have specific guitar hooks that do require pedals to duplicate on a steel. Rock often has complex chord progressions that include minor, sus4 and add9 voicings.
The basic E9th copedent can handle all of that, except when the required notes go below its range. The lack of low end has always been my only complaint with E9th. If you extend the E9th down to low E, you have equal footing to trade parts with the lead guitarist.
John Billings asks "Why not use RKR to raise the 9th string B to D like on my Kline Uni?". That's fine. If you sacrifice the D string to add a low E, you need to get that D note somehow. Whether you get it my lowering E or raising B (or both!), it's a matter of what works best for you. There is no standard 10-string copedent with a bottom E. I wish the standard had evolved differently, but it is what it is.
Even my little 8-string D6th has a low E (on pedal 3).
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 1 Aug 2014 9:35 am
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I spent a bit of time refreshing my skills on pentatonic scales last night. I have a universal 12 sitting right next to a D10. (significant difference in copedent, Btw, that's another topic)
One of the most compelling minor pentatonic scales is with the b-pedal down, and you strike 10,9.8 7 6 5 in sequence.
I can do a similar thing on the uni, but without the low D string there's a pedal movement involved which disrupts the picking flow.
Leading to my two gripes: having that pesky D string, and the other, not having that pesky D string. Lol.
If rock, blues, and even classical were my sole genre interests, i'd want an extended E9 on a 12 string neck. Honestly, i'm with b0b, the lack of two lower strings is a major disadvantage to the traditional E9 neck. |
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 2 Aug 2014 8:51 am
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| Bump for the OP, good topic! |
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 2 Aug 2014 8:53 am
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| Bump for the OP, good topic! |
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