How Smooth?

Dave Birkett · From: Oxnard, CA, USA

I hate the half-and-whole-step lower of the 2nd string on my E9 neck. I like the change, but to play it more smoothly, I'll have to spend more time in the gym. I also use the lever (RKR) for a change on the C6 neck, so it's a tough pull. My guitar uses the resistance of the 9th string to get the half-step feel. I know there are other methods to do this, but how smooth does it get? I doubt that there is anything I can do about it without losing the change short of buying a new guitar.

Jerry Hayes · From: Virginia Beach, Va.

I hate that half stop thing too. For a long time now I've split them up onto two different levers. One thing you can do is take the D# to C# lower and put it on the lever which lowers your E's to Eb. It's very usable there and eliminates the unison between strings 2 and 4. When used like this it also gives you a 2 in your E scale or 9th, whatever you want to call it. I personally tune my 2nd to C# and raise it to D and C# on separate levers. Have a good 'un....JH

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Livin' in the Past and the Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning.

Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

If it gets smooth, you won't feel the half stop.

Dave Birkett · From: Oxnard, CA, USA

Thanks for the responses. Jerry, that seems like a good idea. I'm trying to think if I lose anything with that and so far I haven't found anything. Earnest, that's exactly the problem. A Nobel Prize to the person who came up with another method!! BTW, my guitar is a GFI. Is there a modification to the changer one can do?

[This message was edited by Dave Birkett on 12 January 2004 at 12:37 PM.]

richard burton · From: Britain

Dave, there is a very simple mod that can be done to make lowers easier. I have done it on every all-pull steel that I have owned. The lower return springs need to be made much longer, at least four times the original length. On my Carter, this proved to be quite simple, because the design of the bellcranks allowed me to make a rod (about 8 inches long) which passed through the bellcrank slot, and located in the lower part of the changer finger. Several extension springs were connected together,going from the usual position at the endplate, to the far end of the rod. Trial and error determines the tension of the springs. The principle behind my mod is that the percentage increase in the tension of several springs traveling say 1/2 inch is much less than the percentage increase in the tension of a single spring moving 1/2 inch.
This means the levers are easier to push, so the lever travel can be minimised without paying the penalty of excess operating force.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Since I use that change very fast sometimes, I had to put the 1/2-step on a different lever. I can manage 1/2 stops playing slow stuff, but when the tempo picks up, it's hard for me to feel the stop. Putting the 1/2-step and whole step on different levers also guarantees a smooth action!

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

I hated a half-stop the day I first put it on and EVERY time I ever engaged it. This is why I went to two levers. And It was one of the best things I ever did. Jeff Newman says a half -stop is not a good idea. I agree.

carl

[This message was edited by C Dixon on 13 January 2004 at 06:23 AM.]

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

I dislike it so much that I now just lower the 2nd a half-step. I'm without that C#, admittedly, but I use the half-step lower much more frequently than I ever did the whole-step.

I do get the feel-stop put on a new guitar when I get it - just in case I ever decide to go back to the D/C# - but, for now, it's 'rolled off'.

RR

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

I put that change on my RKL. I feel like I have better control moving my knee to the left rather than the right. But your mileage may vary.
Erv

Dave Birkett · From: Oxnard, CA, USA

Thanks for your responses. On the Lloyd Green and Tommy White video, Lloyd uses the changes frequently on his JCH and he doesn't seem to lower the 9th string (in fact, he uses a slant for that). How does he feel the half? He doesn't seem to be pushing hard with his leg.

Dave Van Allen · From: Doylestown, PA , US , Earth

I have it on 2 different levers, have had for 20 years. The whole step change is as smooth as I need , and if I need to stop halfway (going one direction or another) I 've got a tuned accurate stop.

although it makes sense in some ways for a Universal to put the whole step lower on the lever with the E lowers, I don't do that - I play lots of double-stop stuff that I didn't want to lose, with the upper E string not pulled but the 2nd at -.5 or -1.

Michael Johnstone · From: Sylmar,Ca. USA

The half-stops on Excel guitars are in a class by themselves because they use a double fulcrum system instead of springs.The halfway point is very solid but once you push thru it,there is little if any additional restance for the second half.I've got them on two different levers on my Excel U-12 and I'm diggin' 'em. Half stops have always been problematic for me on any other guitar for the reasons stated so far in this thread - altho I've used one since 1980 on 2 MSAs and my Sierra. At any rate they work best when they only move one string and when they are on RKL or LKR so they are in contact with the most sensitive part of your leg. -MJ-

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

If you use the D to C# drop on the 9th string you can get it set up so that it will kick in at the 1/2 way point on the 2nd string. It takes a little work and sometimes you need to change the gauge of the string on the 9th but it can be done.
Erv

Winnie Winston · From: Tawa, Wellington, NZ * R.I.P.

The steel I built (a push /pull) has the 2nd and 9th lower push directly on the finger (you can see it on my web site). I have always used the stop on the 9th string as the 1/2 point, and then jiggled with the length of fulcum on the bell-crank to get the (now) 2 Ds to lower to a C#.

My Kline is set up the same. The knee levers on both are easy, and the half stop is VERY feel-able.

There should be no reason that you have to be a gorrila to get past the half stop. If you have to press that hard, there is something wrong with the guitar.

JW

[This message was edited by Winnie Winston on 14 January 2004 at 02:05 AM.]

Bengt Erlandsen · From: Brekstad, NORWAY

How does the knee-lever feel without the pull on the C6? is it still a tough pull? If so the return springs on the E9 is adjusted to tight or you need a longer movement of the knee-lever.
I have a D10 w (RKL)lowers on 2&9 (E9) + a lower on the C6 and it can be adjusted to almost no half-stop or a real good halfstop by adjusting the return spring on the E9 9th string.
The return spring on the E9 2nd strings needs to be as loose as possible (Since this most likely has the longest movement of the lowering fingers) while still beeing able to pull the string back to pitch when lever is released The pull on the C6 should start when the 2nd string E9 is at its halfstop (unless you want a halfstop feel on the C6 also, then it should start at the same time as the 2nd string lower). The C6-pull has to be syncronized w the start of the E9th 9 string lower. It might take a little work with the pull rods to find the proper placement on cross-shaft and raise/lower fingers but when it is done you have full control of the half stop by adjusting the E9 9th string return spring.

Bengt Erlandsen

[This message was edited by Bengt Erlandsen on 14 January 2004 at 03:19 AM.]

Dave Birkett · From: Oxnard, CA, USA

Thanks for the responses, guys. Bengt, the pull was tough before I added the C6 move. I'm going to try loosening the 2nd string return spring as you advised. The tuning of the drops isn't the issue; they're all right on. It's the effort on the second half. I usually use a slant to lower the 9th string just to avoid the effort.

[This message was edited by Dave Birkett on 14 January 2004 at 11:23 AM.]

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