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Topic: Changing pedal steel strings -all at once or one at a time? |
Lyle Clary
From:
Decatur, Illinois, KC9VCB
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Posted 10 Jul 2014 6:16 pm |
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I changed the stings on my Zum Encore S10 today. I changed them one at a time as a friend of mine said that if you take them all off then put them back on there is so much stress on the cabinet that is released all at once it takes a while before the cabinet again reaches normality. Any ideas? Sounds plausible to me.
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2006 Zum D10 8x8,1969 ZB Custom D10,
10 3x4 Peavey Nashville 112 Peavey LTD 400 2014 Zum Encore Wood Grain 4x5 Stage One pot pedal |
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Edward Rhea
From:
Medford Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 10 Jul 2014 6:31 pm
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I know changing all at once on my bass guitar can play havoc...
Seems to me that one at a time(on psg) would help to eliminate confusion on guage and placement? That's enough a reason for this guy 
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“TONESNOB†|
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Bill L. Wilson
From:
Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 10 Jul 2014 6:58 pm The Change.
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| Take'em all off, wipe the changer real good, put'em all back on, and tune it up. And sometimes drop a little Tri-Flow on the changer. |
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Kevin Raymer
From:
Chalybeate, Kentucky, USA
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Posted 10 Jul 2014 7:48 pm
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My instructor advised me to take them all off and clean it good an put just a little lube between the finger seams.
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Kevin Raymer
Zum / Knaggs / Breedlove
Fractal Audio |
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Tony Glassman
From:
The Great Northwest
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Posted 10 Jul 2014 9:59 pm
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All at once.
I use a power key winder bit (in a variable speed cordless drill). That's how we strung up guitars when I was building'em at Sierra and I've continued doing at that way for 25 years with no problem. Have the guitar hooked up to your tuner, go slow and stop when you get to about halftone from your target note. Handcrank from there, stretch and repeat until the string holds the desired pitch...... It makes changing strings quick and easy. |
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Les Cargill
From:
Oklahoma City, Ok, USA
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Posted 11 Jul 2014 4:52 am
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| Tony Glassman wrote: |
All at once.
I use a power key winder bit (in a variable speed cordless drill). That's how we strung up guitars when I was building'em at Sierra and I've continued doing at that way for 25 years with no problem. Have the guitar hooked up to your tuner, go slow and stop when you get to about halftone from your target note. Handcrank from there, stretch and repeat until the string holds the desired pitch...... It makes changing strings quick and easy. |
Excepting possibly the third ( G#, 0.11 ) string. I bring that up to a few semitones lower than G# and very slowly bring it to full pitch, allowing it to stretch after each increase in tension. Don't pull on it to stretch it, either.
Them things hurt when they pop. |
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Tony Glassman
From:
The Great Northwest
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Posted 11 Jul 2014 6:27 am
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| Les Cargill wrote: |
| Tony Glassman wrote: |
All at once.
I use a power key winder bit (in a variable speed cordless drill). That's how we strung up guitars when I was building'em at Sierra and I've continued doing at that way for 25 years with no problem. Have the guitar hooked up to your tuner, go slow and stop when you get to about halftone from your target note. Handcrank from there, stretch and repeat until the string holds the desired pitch...... It makes changing strings quick and easy. |
Excepting possibly the third ( G#, 0.11 ) string. I bring that up to a few semitones lower than G# and very slowly bring it to full pitch, allowing it to stretch after each increase in tension. Don't pull on it to stretch it, either.
Them things hurt when they pop. |
I can make an argument about bring the 3rd string up more slowly than the others....say to F#.... before stretching. I do stretch by hand, pulling upward on each string until it holds pitch at either a semi-tone or whole tone below target. After it does hold, I tune to the target note and stretch with pedals and levers |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 11 Jul 2014 8:13 am
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All at once.
I've seen and heard stories about the 3rd string and slowly bringing it up to pitch. I've had a pedal steel since late 1969 and I've never done that and never had a problem. |
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Ray Minich
From:
Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra
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Posted 11 Jul 2014 12:03 pm
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I think that an average string pulls about 20 to 30 pounds on the guitar ends, so for a 10 string that would be about 200 to 300 pounds tension at 1/2 inch off the deck.
No different than standing on one end of the guitar (which I don't recommend...)
For a well designed guitar body this should pose no mechanical hysteresis or "set" problem.
That third string has always been a issue. I've snapped my share by bringing it up "too" fast...
I still only change my strings when they rust or break.
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Lawyers are done: Emmons SD-10, 3 Dekleys including a D10, NV400, and lots of effects units to cover my clams... |
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Les Cargill
From:
Oklahoma City, Ok, USA
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Posted 11 Jul 2014 4:19 pm
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| Jack Stoner wrote: |
All at once.
I've seen and heard stories about the 3rd string and slowly bringing it up to pitch. I've had a pedal steel since late 1969 and I've never done that and never had a problem. |
I may have had a bad run of 0.011 strings, Jack. Three broke on me in a row. For the fourth, I tuned it a whole tone or two flat and left it overnight and it did fine. |
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Jimmy Gibson
From:
Cornwall, England
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Posted 11 Jul 2014 11:37 pm
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I always use a 11.5 or a 12 for my third string imho they will tune to pitch better than a 11 and they sound better.
Jimmy. |
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Tony Smart
From:
Harlow. Essex. England
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Posted 12 Jul 2014 3:15 am
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Some years ago, on my '74 p/p I took off all the strings on both necks and left it for a fortnight. Can't remember the reason why.
However, when restringing it took another fortnight to settle down, - it was all over the place.
Can't really understand why, as builders of new guitars don't seem to have this trouble . It must be something to do with stress in the wood over the years.
Like others, I change each neck completely, which makes it easier to give it a clean and oil - never gives any trouble. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 12 Jul 2014 5:56 am Re: Changing pedal steel strings -all at once or one at a ti
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| Lyle Clary wrote: |
| I changed the stings on my Zum Encore S10 today. I changed them one at a time as a friend of mine said that if you take them all off then put them back on there is so much stress on the cabinet that is released all at once it takes a while before the cabinet again reaches normality. Any ideas? Sounds plausible to me. |
It's a non-issue, and you have nothing to worry about. The necks on guitars are far, far smaller, and it doesn't bother them to do it either way! |
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 12 Jul 2014 8:56 am
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I replace one string at a time, get it up to pitch and dial in the pedal/lever changes, then move to the next.
When the old string is off, I clean the roller-nut and changer-finger surfaces, and put a drop of lube on each side of the roller-nut and changer finger and work it in a little.
I stretch and tune the new string real good and get it pretty well gig ready, then move on to the next string.
This way the steel is basically ready to play when I am done with the last string (and it's also ready to play pretty much any time during the string changing process).
At the end I go through and check the tuning and fine tune as needed.
I try to do this at least 24 hours before a gig, and then play through every pedal/lever change for 15 min or so and fine tune again before the gig.
Unless there is some major part replacement scheduled, I don't like to remove all of the strings at once. |
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Wayne Quinn
From:
Cape Breton.NovaScotia
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Posted 12 Jul 2014 11:36 am
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Would be nice to get an answer from a guitar builder on this subject.  I have done it both ways and never had any trouble . but may be there is a right way. and a wrong way ?
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D10 Carter, SD10 Mullen .Nashville 400,. peavey 112 Boss DD3., RV5, |
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Steve Lipsey
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 12 Jul 2014 12:05 pm
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Why not split the difference? I take off half the strings at a time...two-sided key heads make that seem like a good alternative, you string up one side at a time anyway.......still frees up the neck, etc. for easy cleaning, keeps things under enough tension to prevent whatever might happen from completely removing tension...
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https://www.lostsailorspdx.com
Williams S10s, Milkman Pedal Steel Mini & "The Amp"
Ben Bonham Resos, 1954 Oahu Diana, 1936 Oahu Parlor |
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 12 Jul 2014 2:49 pm
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Ime, Too many things can go wrong when you take multiple strings off.
The bellcranks are most likely to partially or completely slip out of their bellcrank-slot when the string is off. Same for the rest of the pull-train linkage, rods, and related hardware.
Changing and dialing in each string one at a time is statistically your safest bet to keep you steel functioning as it was before the string change.
Last edited by Pete Burak on 12 Jul 2014 3:27 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Tony Glassman
From:
The Great Northwest
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Posted 12 Jul 2014 3:26 pm
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Never had a problem with taking them all off. In fact, I take them off both necks. What I usually do is lay a towel across the strings and clip them about one third of the way from the changer with a wire cutters. That leaves the ball ends nice and long so they won't get lost in the changer. It allows me total access to thoroughly clean and lube everything.
Like I said, that's how we did it @ Sierra and that's how I do it during rebuilds. I don't worry about stress changes because a steel guitar body is a essentially a maple bench that's reinforced with wood or metal necks and 2 metal end- plates. It can handle it! |
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 12 Jul 2014 3:49 pm
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I'm cool with however anyone does it, and I also remove all the strings every once in a while to clean and lube, replace a pickup, etc.
I do agree it has nothing to do with tension on the neck.
If you're like me you wipe down the neck and body tons of times between string changes, so it's not really about cleaning.
My thoughts are based on how I would advise a beginner, to avoid the "I just changed all my strings and now my BC pedals don't work right" type of posts.
I would also advise folks to keep a chart of what Bellcrank slots the pull-rods are in before beginning the first string change, in case one slips out and is dangling in the undercarriage (typically because you pressed a pedal or lever while the string was removed and the linkage was not under tension).
I'm not trying to sway any of the guys who've worked at a Steel company like Tony and several other guys who live around here (Sierra was based in this area for years), or any experienced Steeler who has string changing dialed in with whatever method. I also realize that some brands have a method to keep the rod from coming out of the bellcrank, but on my Sierra and Zum they can fall right out, and if you have a push pull you have probably knocked a lowering-rod out of the changer finger hole at some time.
Steel on! |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 13 Jul 2014 7:44 am
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| Pete Burak wrote: |
My thoughts are based on how I would advise a beginner, to avoid the "I just changed all my strings and now my BC pedals don't work right" type of posts. |
I feel the vast majority of those problems are caused by over-tuning. Players put new strings on and then commence to crankin' away at the nylon tuners, losing sight of the fact that slippage will occur, and that should be adjusted out first with the tuning keys. Remember, until the open string tuning no longer drifts when pressing and releasing the pedal rapidly, it's senseless to be adjusting that nylon nut. Doing otherwise just leaves you chasing your tail all night, trying to get the thing in tune.
Been there, done that.  |
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 13 Jul 2014 7:59 am
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One example, just recently someone posted that they changed all the strings on their steel, and found out that, because the string company put two 11's in the pac, he accidentally put the second 11 on string 4, and then strung up strings 5-10 with the strings for 4-9.
If he would have tuned up the string and pressed the C-pedal right after putting it on, he would have probably known that something was way off, and fixed it before proceeding.
Another pretty regular culprit, a guy tries a different type of string than he's been regularly using...
The new pack either uses different guages on various strings, or, the 6th is wound and he's been using a plain, or vica-versa, and then there is an issue that doesn't get addressed until the entire set has been changed.
I'm just saying, If you change one string at a time and make sure your steel is still working perfectly before you move on to the next string, when you get done there won't be any surprises. |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 13 Jul 2014 3:29 pm
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As someone who has in the region of a hundred instruments, my practice has always been to change them when they break, so, unless all the strings on one of my PSGs break at the same time, which is unlikely, I'm only ever likely to change one at a time. What this means, of course, is that I have some instruments with 70 yr. old strings on.
Looking at this question as a luthier, the idea that taking all the strings off will release enormous tensions that will distort the body is completely absurd. When stringing up an acoustic string instrument the practice is to put on the first string and then the sixth, followed by the second and the fifth, and finally the third and the fourth. This is to equalise the pressure on the bridge. A pedal steel has no bridge.  |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 14 Jul 2014 2:34 am
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Martin Guitar strings are packaged two to an envelope, e.g. 6th and 4th together. If changing strings based on Alan's theory then those two would be changed and then the 5th and 2nd, and finally the 3rd and 1st.
On the Martin site, there is a video on properly changing strings and they take them all off, put all the strings on the bridge end, and then string the guitar up.
When I worked at Little Roy Wiggin's Music store in Nashville, which was the Nashville Emmons dealer and also the Grammer Guitar factory outlet, we always took the strings off of a guitar and then restrung it.
When I had my 61 PX6120 Gretsch, I didn't change them all at one time, but that was because the bridge was not fixed. If I were to take them all off, the bridge would fall off and then it was a hassle getting it properly set (intonation). |
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 14 Jul 2014 5:45 am
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Again, I'm not trying to change anybody's mind, just sharing thoughts based on the OP's question, in hopes of helping a newb avoid various string-change related issues.
When you change a string, make sure all the pedal/lever changes for that string work perfectly before moving on to the next one.
Here's a recent one:
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=268524 |
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Wayne Quinn
From:
Cape Breton.NovaScotia
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Posted 14 Jul 2014 8:31 am
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Had talked to Mickey Adams a month ago about changing the strings all at once on my[ Mullen ]and his opinion was it does not hurt a thing. other than you letting the changer re- acclimate after you re string . that takes around 2 hours or so . so with Mickeys rebuilding experience I am confident and have done it that way and ever thing was fine.
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D10 Carter, SD10 Mullen .Nashville 400,. peavey 112 Boss DD3., RV5, |
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