Silly question about string gauge and travel

Greg Milton · From: Benalla, Australia

Hello forumites, I hope someone can explain something for me!

I recently broke my 4th string (on E9) and was short of .014 gauge strings and so decided to replace it with a .015. I then discovered that I didn't have enough travel for my E-F# raise and my E-Eb lower (though the E-F raise was fine), and so had to move the pull rods up the bell crank (away from the axle) to tune these changes correctly.

Isn't this the opposite of what should happen, given that heavier gauges mean shorter, stiffer pulls with less travel needed?

Am I missing something here? Any insightful guidance would be appreciated!

Greg

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

At the same tension, that holds true. BUT as tension rises, strings react slower, so they need more travel. And it appears that the change of travel varies more with tension than gauge.
It's a strange and dynamic interaction between gauge, tension and travel.
For emergency substitutions, I always go LIGHTER, as slacker strings react faster. A .012 or .013 should do it no problem.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Greg Milton · From: Benalla, Australia

Thanks Lane - I was actually thinking of trying Paul Franklin's Jagwire signature set and going heavier on strings 3 and 5 as well, and so was wondering how this all worked.

So, to summarise, if you go for a lighter gauge you will need to adjust the travel for a shorter, stiffer pull, and if you go for a heavier gauge you will also need to adjust the travel for a shorter, stiffer pull. Aah, now I understand!... I think?

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

Paul has the strings gauged for his copedent, which includes his "Franklin Pedal". If you don't have the Franklin Pedal then the different gauges on certain strings, such as the 5th string are not needed.

Paul is now using D'Addario strings (according to his comment on a recent YouTube interview), but they do not make a Paul Franklin set.

I tried a set of Live Strings (both E9th and C6th), which have heavier gauges on some strings than what my Franklin is set up for (it is set up for the "Nashville" Gauges which are the same as the Sho-Bud Gauges). I would have had to change several pull rod locations on pullers for the strings. I took them off and put my usual George L's (Nashville Gauges) back on.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Greg Milton · From: Benalla, Australia

Thanks Lane - shorter but not necessarily stiffer. I think I'm beginning to understand!

Thanks Jack - I hope Jagwire still sell the PF strings!

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

I just thought of another way of putting it:

If tension is equal:
Heavier gauges are more responsive (require less travel) than lighter gauges (or for the same amount of travel, the thicker string will change pitch more).

If gauge is equal:
The slacker string will respond more than a tighter string (or for the same travel, the slacker string will move farther).

For instance, on the intro to "Set 'em Up Joe", Jim Vest tuned the 10th string to somewhere a bit flat of F# (The open note doesn't really matter, as you begin adding the A pedal as soon as you hit the string: the only note to tune is low A with the A pedal), and the A pedal brought it all the way to A
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

Dennis Detweiler · From: Solon, Iowa, US

Sliding a Viagra tablet up and down a slack string might help? Whoa!

It should get you through a four hour gig.
_________________
1976 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics 427 pickup, 1975 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics X-12 pickup, Revelation preamp, Carbon Copy Delay and Hall Of Fame Reverb, Crown XLS 1002, 2- 15" Eminence Wheelhouse speakers, ShoBud Pedal, Effects Pedals. 1949 Epiphone D-8.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Experience tells me that a change of only .001" shouldn't make a big difference. I suspect the travel issue (and not being able to tune the new string) was more related to "over-tuning", either before or after the string change. A properly set up guitar would have enough slack in the pulling train to compensate for small changes like this.

However, some players do have their guitars set up with little or no slack, and that sort of invites problems when you do little things like going up or down one number in the string guages. Idea

Dennis Detweiler · From: Solon, Iowa, US

Yes, what Donny said. I always carry spare strings of the same guage to avoid having to reset stops and/or end play on the rods with close tolerances.
_________________
1976 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics 427 pickup, 1975 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics X-12 pickup, Revelation preamp, Carbon Copy Delay and Hall Of Fame Reverb, Crown XLS 1002, 2- 15" Eminence Wheelhouse speakers, ShoBud Pedal, Effects Pedals. 1949 Epiphone D-8.

Greg Milton · From: Benalla, Australia

Thanks Donny, this is something to think about. I certainly don't have much slack in the way my knee levers and pedals are set up.

Thanks to all who chipped in here...

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

My Franklin is setup with little to no slack. After 32 plus years it is still that way. I mentioned that to Mr Franklin shortly after getting it, as the PP Emmons I had did have slack and "loose" knee levers. He told me that was a result of working with Hal Rugg. Hal wanted a pedal or knee lever to be doing something as soon as he started to move it, no slack.

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