Univeresal E9/B6 copedent feedback

Matt Teske · From: Seattle, WA

Fellow Forumites,

I was hoping to get some feedback on a proposed copedent for a 7x5 universal E9/B6. It is a triple raise, double lower guitar. My concerns are with putting P6 onto the RKL, along with the F# (to get rid of P3. If I let off of the RKR, and engage the RKL, I would be getting a 9th chord. However, I am still somewhat new to the 6th side, and don't know if it is crucial to get the 1 back on P6. However, I am trying to view it as one big tuning, so don't want to pigeonhole myself too much into E9th vs. C6th changes. The benefits I see are getting rid of P3 (I only have 3 raises) in order to free up a raise for the B to C change (not sure how crucial that is, or if it would be better on a knee), and adding another scale tone on the ii chord with AB+RKL. However, I would lose the 5 on the pedals down position, if I want to grab the D on string 2. Anyway, any feedback would be appreciated. I figure the best way to test it would be to just change the guitar around and try it out, but if I am overlooking any deal breakers, it would be nice to know before I go through the trouble.

Rich Peterson · From: Moorhead, MN

Raising string 4 on the same lever that lowers string 8 costs you a beautiful 6/9 chord and pentatonic scale.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Giving up the low 7/high root of P6 loses a valuable bit of vocabulary.
If you look at my youtube channel at www.youtube.com/steelguitarlane you will see a video in which I show why I dislike combining the 2nd and 4th string drops. Too many tasty melodic devices available when can use them one after the other.
If the traditional P5 stays on the floor, your half step B raises should go on a knee. They go together well.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

Matt, this is interesting to me, as I'm building a U12 and although I'm pretty sure about most of it, there are some things I can't decide, and probably won't until I've tried them. I'm a relative beginner but so far I have studied the B6 side equally with the E9 and I tune the back neck on my D10 to B. As with you, it's P6 that'll move onto a lever as I find it hard to rock on to it off P5. I also have the C raise on the rightmost pedal (although Emmons put it on a lever when he formulated the basic C6 setup, as Lane points out). Like you, I feel as though the P6 lever (to call it that) should be doing more than just one thing, but in reality it's a basic change around which other things need to be able to move independently. I like the idea of ditching the C pedal and having S4 E-F# on a lever, and I'm considering having two LKVs.

As for string 2, I'm going to try tuning it to C# then raising it as required, reasoning that in B6 mode (whether this is more mental or physical I'm interested to find out) it mostly sits at C# with the occasional raise to D whereas in E9 it's much busier. Maybe this will turn out to be logical - time will tell. Although I'm not fluent on strings 1&2 yet, I do understand that the changes on those need to be independent of S4 and each other so that all intervals are available.

Here is a draft copedent, still with the C pedal. I would like also to lower String 6.

One other thing, on your guitar must you use separate pulls for multiple changes to the same pitch, or can a single rod engage with more than one crank?
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs

Matt Teske · From: Seattle, WA

Thanks for the feedback, eveyone. I haven't changed it yet, so I am still trying to figure out the best approach for my playing.

Ian, i do need to use separate pulls for the same pitch, which limits my options slighty, due to my 3R/2L changer.

Lane, you are right. There is a lot of good stuff when the 2nd and 4th string lowers are split.

I may end up keeping it pretty standard, and just adding a few knee levers.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Don't forget the Bradshaw Gizmo. Loans a pull from a neighboring segment (an additional raise can come from an adjacent string's unused raise, or that string's lower)
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

Matt, I've tried the arrangement I posted above (just on the middle four strings) and I hate it!

I've realised that you need to be able to get straight from D# (or Eb) to D without any hint of E in between.

I'm determined not to retreat back to 5 6 & 7 on the floor, so I'm going to try the D# & D as a double stop on one knee. If it works I'll tell you!
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

Well, I've tried it and it works! No pics yet cos it's a bit of a lash-up which I'm ashamed to display in public, but I put eighth-string D# on RKR in such a way that you get D if you keep pushing. I've always thought that B6 uni is all about how you manage the eighth string, and to have it all tied up in one place is good. When I've got used to it I'll do a video.

I only have four strings at the moment (this post explains that http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=266082) and when I add string 4 I shall have it lower then raise back to E. As Lane says, there something about the full F7 chord that's too good to junk, although he put it more elegantly.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs

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