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Topic: Pedal 4 change: G# to A on String 6 and B to C# on String 5 |
Tim Brady
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 25 May 2014 6:25 am |
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I will occassionally see a copedant wherein Pedal 4 will pull the 6th string from a G# to and A while it also pulls the 5th string from a B to a C#. I don't think I have seen the change anywhere other than on the 4th pedal, next to a standard 3rd pedal.
I'm missing the point of what this pedal is supposed to do. Is it meant to work in conjunction with the 3rd pedal or as a sort of "stand alone" pedal? Does anyone still used this change?
I'd like to learn more about it because I have a 4th pedal I need to put to good use.
Thanks!
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Tim Brady |
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Larry Bell
From:
Englewood, Florida
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Posted 25 May 2014 6:55 am
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It's the Isaacs Pedal
One of the first changes used on pedal steels was this one. It is the one Bud Isaacs used on Webb Pierce's 'Slowly' which started the rush of steel players to convert to pedals from lap or console guitars.
It raises 5 and 6 and, obviously, gives you a I to IV change -- E to A open -- the pedal steel 'cliche of all cliches'. BUT . . . You also have the 3rd and 10th strings that make other interesting chords. With that pedal you have an AMaj chord with B on 10 -- you also have the G# on 3 on top. Some folks still use that change -- not many.
I would think the 'Franklin Pedal' might be more useful -- either split w/ G# to F# on a lever and B to A on a pedal OR 5 6 10 down a whole tone on one pedal. Either P0 (first on left) or P4 are common places to find this change.
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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
My CD's: 'I've Got Friends in COLD Places' - 'Pedal Steel Guitar'
2021 Rittenberry S/D-12 8x7, 1976 Emmons S/D-12 7x6, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Quilter ToneBlock 202 TT-12 |
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Mark Greenway
From:
Lake Kiowa, Texas
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Posted 25 May 2014 4:31 pm
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I have the split, lowering 5 and 10 on my first pedal and 6 on my RKL.
I like it a lot.
I had all three strings lowering on pedal four on a previous guitar. The split is a little more work but gives me a few more options.
What do you think about lowering that 10th string down to make the lick that Jim Vest is famous for in "Set Em Up Joe" and "Slide Off Your Satin Sheets?"
Does anyone looking at this have that change on their guitar? |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 25 May 2014 7:00 pm
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| jim vest accomplished the cool set em up joe lick by detuning his 10th string. my friend, not knowing jim at all, called him up once and jim explained how to do it over the phone. great guy! |
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Mark Greenway
From:
Lake Kiowa, Texas
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Posted 25 May 2014 7:21 pm
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Yea, Jim seems like the type of guy that would be that kind.
I know he detuned it. I have used it a few times. It is a sweet little sound for your bag of tricks. Jim explains it on one of his videos.
Can it be put on a pedal or knee lever? I think Tommy White mentioned in one of the Jim Vest videos that he had that change on a pedal or knee lever.
Last edited by Mark Greenway on 25 May 2014 7:56 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Mark Greenway
From:
Lake Kiowa, Texas
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Posted 25 May 2014 7:37 pm
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| Tim, I just thought that would give you an idea for that fourth pedal. I would like to have that change somewhere on my guitar. |
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Tim Brady
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 27 May 2014 6:10 pm
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Larry,
Thank you and everyone so much for the robust, expert replies. I am so much more educated, now. And I am getting some better ideas as to how to set up that 4th pedal.
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Tim Brady |
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Adrian Adkisson
From:
Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 13 May 2015 5:41 pm
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Can someone explain to me the lick at :27? It's probably pretty simple I just can't figure it out.
Thanks! |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 13 May 2015 10:40 pm
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My favorite 4th pedal is (assuming Emmons pedals) move A, B, and and C over and use P1 to raise 1&2 to G# and E.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Jeff Mead
From:
London, England
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Posted 14 May 2015 12:04 am
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| Lane Gray wrote: |
| My favorite 4th pedal is (assuming Emmons pedals) move A, B, and and C over and use P1 to raise 1&2 to G# and E. |
I've got that change on my steel but it's on RKL. Unusually, this is the only change I have on pedals 1 & 2 (most people seem to have a D# lower somewhere) but as someone very recently moved over from the non-pedal world, I'm still not using strings 1&2 much.
I'm still finding my way around the steel but it's nice for going from the V chord on strings 1 2 and 5 back to the I (or the other way of course).
Are there any videos or whatever you could point me to for more ideas to use this? |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 14 May 2015 6:04 am
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For the 1st and 2nd string raise, I did a video of me using it a lot. It's here 1st and 2nd string raise demo, The Other Woman: http://youtu.be/XUykptG6DBQI combine the 2nd string raise with the whole tone lower a bunch, which is why I have it on a pedal: that way I can use it simultaneously with my RKR.
My RKL raises 1 to G and lowers 6 to F#
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 14 May 2015 6:05 am
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| Adrian Adkisson wrote: |
Can someone explain to me the lick at :27? It's probably pretty simple I just can't figure it out.
Thanks! |
On what video?
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 14 May 2015 6:38 am
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I have the Isaacs change on pedal 4 - it's not my most-used pull but I love the maj 7th it gives me (3,4,5,6).
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles, Martins, and a Gibson Super 400!
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 14 May 2015 7:59 am
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| Lane Gray wrote: |
| My favorite 4th pedal is (assuming Emmons pedals) move A, B, and and C over and use P1 to raise 1&2 to G# and E. |
Me too, but I play Day setup, and have string 1 to G# and 2 to E on my pedal 5 (2, 3 & 4 are my C, B, and A.) pedals.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 14 May 2015 8:05 am
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I raise 1,2 and 7 (G#, E, G# respectively) but on my LKL2. I play 'Day' as well.
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles, Martins, and a Gibson Super 400!
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Mike Fried
From:
Nashville, TN, USA
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Posted 18 May 2015 8:52 am
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The Isaacs change on P4 can be cool, but I think that raising 6 to A# is even more useful (for great F#7/9 moves with or without P3). You can easily re-tune the string 6 raise to have either one, actually. I find a 9th string root with P1+P2 or P2+P3 more useful for maj7 chords, but YMMV...
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Visit my music page at http://facebook.com/drfried |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 18 May 2015 9:13 am
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Me too, Mike - I love the 9th string D for that very reason.
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles, Martins, and a Gibson Super 400!
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 18 May 2015 2:15 pm Re: Pedal 4 change: G# to A on String 6 and B to C# on Stri
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| Tim Brady wrote: |
I will occassionally see a copedant wherein Pedal 4 will pull the 6th string from a G# to and A while it also pulls the 5th string from a B to a C#. I don't think I have seen the change anywhere other than on the 4th pedal, next to a standard 3rd pedal.
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That's certainly not a common change, and it's also not one I've seen any pro use in the last 40 years. There's a lot of good changes for P4, but that ain't one of 'em.  |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 18 May 2015 3:22 pm
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Well... Donny has spoken!
Another use is getting a '4 over 5' chord with the Isaacs pedal depressed (5,6 & 10). That gives you a 5th in the bass (on string 10, which isn't raised).
As with all these choices it depends what music you want to play, but a 4/5 is a very useful pop music chord. And I know of at least one significant Nashville player who has this change.
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles, Martins, and a Gibson Super 400!
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Les Cargill
From:
Oklahoma City, Ok, USA
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Posted 18 May 2015 5:33 pm Re: Pedal 4 change: G# to A on String 6 and B to C# on Stri
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| Donny Hinson wrote: |
| Tim Brady wrote: |
I will occassionally see a copedant wherein Pedal 4 will pull the 6th string from a G# to and A while it also pulls the 5th string from a B to a C#. I don't think I have seen the change anywhere other than on the 4th pedal, next to a standard 3rd pedal.
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That's certainly not a common change, and it's also not one I've seen any pro use in the last 40 years. There's a lot of good changes for P4, but that ain't one of 'em. |
It's the standard C6 4 pedal. Turns the 6th note to a major 7th. Good for gettin' all Gershwin on something. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 18 May 2015 6:27 pm
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Oh...sorry - my bad. I thought we were talking about the E9th tuning?!  |
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Les Cargill
From:
Oklahoma City, Ok, USA
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Posted 19 May 2015 4:57 pm
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You must become part of the U12 Borg, Donny. Join us! 
( I keed. No offense, sir. )
I do actually use P4 on nominally E9 changes, though.
One example:
D chord at fret five, AB down.
Slide up one fret, release AB and hit E lower plus P4. Yeah the E lower makes it B6 ish.
Resolve that to pedals up on fret 5. Nice IV to i6
( A minor add 6, which is sort of F major ish ) to I cadence.
Now that's a plagal cadence with teeth. |
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