Gauged rollers chart

Hans Holzherr · From: Münchenbuchsee, Switzerland

I recently gave the rollers on my Carter to a machinist to gauge them, and for that I calculated how much deeper the grooves would have to be. Since the final inclination of the steel bar at the nut relative to the top is not defined from the start, it can be freely chosen within some close boundaries. However, since there is normally a set of 3 or more adjacent strings whose gauges change with a fixed increment, there is always an inclination angle for which between 3 and 5 rollers can be left unchanged, given that the rest of the rollers be turned with a tool which makes grooves identical to the original grooves. For the Carter the groove angle is 60 degrees.

In case anybody is interested in having their rollers changed, too, I thought I'd make an interactive chart which calculates the optimal inclination angle and grooves, and post it on the web. It can be found at http://homepage.hispeed.ch/updowncat/roller_grooves.htm and comprises E9/extended E9/E9-B6 universal/and C tunings with string gauge alternatives. The blue numbers are the groove depths in mm in reference to the groove of the unchanged rollers (red numbers). The interactivity lies in the groove angle input field. However, it is not easy to determine the angle from just looking at it. It has to be verified with a cutting tool in the machine shop.

It is possible to alter the string spacing in the charts as well, but for all practical puposes that changes very little, and does not affect the blue numbers. These are rounded to 1/1000 of a millimeter, but my friend the machinist said his accuracy was only about 0.015 mm. Better equipment may allow greater precision.

The C tuning has two charts. Which one to use is determined by the gauges of the 3rd and/or 4th strings.

[This message was edited by Hans Holzherr on 17 December 2003 at 04:06 AM.]

[This message was edited by Hans Holzherr on 17 December 2003 at 05:43 AM.]

Uwe Haegg · From: Hilleroed, Denmark

Great!
Thank you very much.
IMO the Carter folks should have implemented
this into their guitar design long ago.

UH
(Carter S-12DB)

Hans Holzherr · From: Münchenbuchsee, Switzerland

BTW, the charts are not brand-specific.

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

Hans,

I would love to see ANY set of "gauged rollers" that resulted in all of the strings' tops being 100% flat.

This is my number one pet peave with EVERY steel guitar I have ever sat behind; bar none! I have tried a number of so-called gauged roller sets. NOT one has come close to what I feel should be an absolute; when it comes to a well designed steel guitar.

So I am very interested in what you are doing. IF you can come up with a set of rollers to permit ALL string tops to be in a 100% straight line, you will (IMO) have come up with something I have yet to see. But it has been much too long in coming.

May our precious Lord richly bless you my friend,

carl

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

Instead of gauging the rollers, why not have a separate nut for each string, with a height adjustment screw? Then we wouldn't have to get new nut rollers every time we change string gauges.

------------------

Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax

richard burton · From: Britain

Carl,
The strings on a 10 string E9 tuning are 99% flat at the nut. From the tenth string to the third string they decrease uniformly in diameter, in increments of 4 thou.
38
34
30
26
22
18
14
10
14
12

The top two strings are the only ones that don't follow this pattern, there's no problem exerting enough pressure at the first fret to eliminate buzzing.
R B

Ad Kersten · From: Beek en Donk, The Netherlands

Richard,

The fact that the thickness of the strings declines linearly does not mean that the are flat. This is because the roller nuts have a groove to hold the string in its place. Depending on the string size and the groove width, the string falls partly into the groove.
The top of the strings are only "flat" in two cases:
1. the strings lie on a flat surface (i.e. there is no groove), assuming linear decrease in string thickness of course,
2. the grooves of the roller nuts are gauged to compensate for differences in string thickness (and that's what we ALL want but is hard to get).

Hans,
Many thanks for the chart; I'll have a closer look in the weekend.

------------------
Zumsteel S12U

Yo, Man! homepage

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

Ad is correct. This is why this thread began. It is why there have been many other threads about it to date on this forum. The facts are I have YET to see ANY steel guitar that did NOT buzz or rattle at the first fret with light bar pressure.

Apparently I am not alone since this subject comes up so often. 'Tis true that the problem on the E9th neck is NOT as aggravating as it is on the C6th neck; BUT it is still there on any guitar I have ever sat down to evem on E9th. It is deplorable on C6 necks and universal 12's. And IMO there is simply NO excuse for it. The builders should have tackled this problem and solved it once and for all long ago.

b0b, you are 100% correct also. The problem in reality is never going to be solved IMO until we are afforded the luxury of infinitely adjustable (up and down) nut rollers. If there was a solution with gauged nut rollers I am sure it would have been found, but I know of no case where that is true. If there is one I want to see it.

carl

Hans Holzherr · From: Münchenbuchsee, Switzerland

Ad and Carl, Richard is 100% correct about the uniform decrease or increase in string gauge providing a flat surface. I was surprised, too when I saw the numbers. But then, it's all a matter of the principle of geometric similitude. However.... these are not the gauges you buy with a standard string set.

John McClung · From: Olympia WA, USA

I have news for y'all---my MSA D-12 has rollers that are both gauged AND heigh adjustable!
Tom Bradshaw was feeling very generous when he simply put this pair on my guitar that he highly customized, I think they were simply custom-made, just happened to be lying around, so he used them on my axe; lucky me!

Someone might see if Bradshaw knows how to obtain more.

I shake and roll, but no longer rattle! Ha!

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