Trouble Getting used to an S10?

Bill Duncan · From: Lenoir, North Carolina, USA

I am seriously thinking about getting an S10. I had a Sho-Bud S10 in 1976 and kept it for about a year before selling it to go to a D10. I have a D10 and a SD10 now and I am not sure how much trouble it will be getting used to a S10.

Do any of you gentlemen who have made this type of change have any insights you could offer on the subject.

Of course I will keep my other guitars. I just think it would be nice to have a smaller guitar to carry around for some of the places I play.
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Ollin Landers · From: Willow Springs, NC

Bill,

I have both an S-12 and an SD-12. I find that I actually like the S-12 better in terms of ergonomics. It feels to me more like I have a lapsteel in my lap compared to an SD-12 where I'm more stretched out.

I usually have the SD-12 at home for practice and take the S-12 to gigs and rehearsals. I switch between the two often enough that I do not notice a big difference with knee and pedal usage. I do notice that my hand position changes some between the two.

It's not so much of a difference that it gives me any issues. But it did take some time for me to realize I was not palm blocking as accurately on the S-12. When I go back to the SD-12 it takes a little time to get the hand position back to effective palm blocking.

I actually can get a little lazier with my hand position on the S-12 and get away with it. Can't do that on the SD-12.

Just my two cents.
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Larry Bressington · From: Nebraska

You might have to shim the volume pedal up some on the rear heel... Sitting closer creates a steeper angle on the ankle causing shin cramps, even if you are sitting back.
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A.K.A Chappy.

Drew Pierce · From: Arkansas, USA

I found the change from D10 to S10 strange at first, but quickly got used to it. But I'd played S10s for several years in the beginning, so it didn't take more than a few hours of playing time to feel comfortable again.

That's a very good tip about VP angle. I hadn't even thought of that, although I have noticed sore right leg shin muscles after a 3-hour gig.
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Drew Pierce
Emmons D10 Fatback, S10 bolt-on, Zum D10, Evans RE500, Hilton volume and delay pedals.

Jerome Hawkes · From: Fayetteville, North Carolina, USA

i'm 6'1 and have long legs and the S-10 was just uncomfortable to me + the VP issue as mentioned, even with a low profile Hilton. i even tried 1" over kit. if it wasnt for that i'd have an S-10. i had a "66 Emmons with tone a-plenty, but the move to a D-10 was much more ergonomically comfortable.
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'65 Sho-Bud D-10 Permanent • '54 Fender Dual-8 • Clinesmith T-8 • '38 Ric Bakelite • '92 Emmons D-10 Legrande II

Dan Beller-McKenna · From: Durham, New Hampshire, USA

Per Larry's VP observation: I strictly use a low profile when playing a D-10 and a regular height pedal when playing my S-10. I tend to keep the regular in my "grab-n-go" seat, since my S-10 is generally my "grab-n-go" axe these days.

Scott Duckworth · From: Etowah, TN Western Foothills of the Smokies

Larry Bressington · From: Nebraska

It saved my day lol.... I might add that if you play a (double neck)at home and the single neck on the road, your leg is going to get used to different angles and that wil be very conflictive on the memory.

What I did was I measured the angle differences that my leg was at between a single neck and a doubleneck, and ended up coming to the conclusion that if I take the volume pedal 4 inches back from the rail on the double neck, (in which I use a wooden block cut at 4 inches) then your leg angle will be approximately the same with the double neck as it would be the single neck with the volume pedal on the rail.

It's quite common people having double neck at home and having single neck for live work.

In this picture below you will see a wooden block between the volume pedal and the pedal rail... This is my double neck steel, that I use in my studio room and allows me to have the same leg positioning as if I was playing my single neck... Point being when I go to a gig my leg throw is not way out of wack from muscle memory and it doesn't have to spend half the night relearning the new position...
It is not perfectly identical but after just a couple minutes at sound check we are all sweetened up and it's barely noticeable between the single and double... Unless you can afford two identical rigs, the 4 inch block should do the trick!

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A.K.A Chappy.

Larry Bressington · From: Nebraska

As far as shimming the heel of the volume pedal, experiment was some cardboard etc, then build shims washers/ larger rubber feet etc...1/4 inch makes a huge difference!!!

Your other choice is to wear a boot with a higher heel. What Dan said was also great idea about different volume pedals. I love my Hiltons though!
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A.K.A Chappy.

James Marlowe · From: Florida, USA

I play SD10's, but a short while back I tried going back to an S10 for a second guitar. The problem I had involved the pedal/knee levers. With the single body, the levers can only be just so far to the rear of the body. Thus I have to get in closer to get my knees on the levers. That in turn made my oversized big feet too close to the pedals. So I'm sticking with double bodies.
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J.R. Marlowe
Life has many choices. Eternity has TWO. I choose Heaven.
Black '95 Zumsteel SD10, 4+5;Black Mullen RP SD10, 4+5
NRA Life member

Bob Carlucci · From: Candor, New York, USA

I am the opposite of most I guess.. I am very uncomfortable with anything but a single frame S10.. I detest SD 10 steels, and D10's are miserable.. i would rather not play if I had to play either one..
I am a decent size guy, but a double frame steel feels huge and unwieldy to me... bob
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Brett Day · From: Pickens, SC

I had no trouble switching from a D-10 to an SD-10. I played a GFI Ultra D-10 for five years, then switched to my current steel, my Jackson Blackjack Custom SD-10 with pad. I thought I wouldn't do well with a pad because of my cerebral palsy in my left hand, but I got used to it very fast and it's easier for me to handle. I feel very comfortable with an SD-10

Drew Pierce · From: Arkansas, USA

A Hilton pedal's off point can be lowered, giving some relief, as well. Same effect as raising the rear feet/pads.
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Drew Pierce
Emmons D10 Fatback, S10 bolt-on, Zum D10, Evans RE500, Hilton volume and delay pedals.

Tony Palmer · From: St Augustine,FL

I'm with Bob on the S10. Its alignment is very much like playing a piano.
You wouldn't want to stretch an extra 6-7 inches to reach the keyboard why do it with a steel?
It just feels too unnatural to reach way out in front to play. Plus I find it more difficult to cope with the parallax created as you try to position the bar over the frets when it is further away.

Drew Pierce · From: Arkansas, USA

I lowered the off point on my Hilton about a half inch (turn adjustment counter-clockwise) and it made a big difference while actually playing. I still have the angle issue when the pedal is in the full (mechanical) off position, which I will likely never be able to avoid assuming when not playing and want zero volume.
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Drew Pierce
Emmons D10 Fatback, S10 bolt-on, Zum D10, Evans RE500, Hilton volume and delay pedals.

Larry Bressington · From: Nebraska

Does that make the sweep shorter and more sensitive? I need to try mine and take a look at that. Thanks for the tip ode boy.
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A.K.A Chappy.

Allan Kirby · From: Ontario, Canada

For many years I played SD-10 guitars. I sold my Sho-Bud SD-10 25 years ago, but kept my Fulawka SD-10, which was custom built for me. However, for some reason, maybe age, things have changed radically, I now prefer my Sho-Bud and Emmons S-10s to the Fulawka SD-10. They are smaller and I can get very close to the fretboard. Visually, I am more on top of what I am doing. My arms don't get tired and I seem to play more comfortably. As I've aged, the pad on the SD-10 seems to be in the way and I feel I am reaching. The S-10s have become my "go to" instruments and the bonus is that they are much more portable than the SD-10, which spends most of its time packed away.

Drew Pierce · From: Arkansas, USA

Bill Moore · From: Manchester, Michigan

I have double body guitars and also s-10 guitars, I've never had a problem with the playing position on any of them. I think the important thing is put yourself in the same relative position no matter what guitar you are playing. Why would you need to sit farther forward playing an S-10 compared to a D-10? The length of your arms and legs is the only thing that would affect this, in my opinion. As far as the pedals are concerned, they are located a similar distance from the front neck of a D-10 compared to an S-10. I'd say, just find a comfortable sitting position at the guitar, with your feet on the pedals and your arms in a comfortable position, no matter what guitar you play. If you switch to a different size guitar, try to achieve the same position, regardless of how far you are from the back side of the guitar. That distance is not what really matters,

James Marlowe · From: Florida, USA

Bill, because the levers are further back from the pedals on a double body. So naturally, the levers on a single body cannot be that far to the rear. Because of my oversized feet and ankles that don't bend like they use to, it's impossible to reach both. Position has nothing to do with it for me.
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J.R. Marlowe
Life has many choices. Eternity has TWO. I choose Heaven.
Black '95 Zumsteel SD10, 4+5;Black Mullen RP SD10, 4+5
NRA Life member

Fred Glave · From: McHenry, Illinois, USA

I went from a D10 to an S12 then back to D10 then to an S10. I never noticed any problems. I'm 6'0" but I think my legs are short for my height so the volume pedal never gave me trouble. I breifly had an SD10 long enough to find out that I cannot tolerate the pad.
I also like having the E9 fretboard up front and close.
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