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Topic: Paul Franklin Effect |
Ron Mishler
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 24 Apr 2014 4:21 pm |
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| Does anyone know what effect is being used on,"She's got it all" K.Chesney? Thanks |
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Brett Day
From:
Pickens, SC
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Posted 24 Apr 2014 4:33 pm
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| Not sure what effect it is. the steel player on "She's Got It All" is Sonny Garrish. Sonny's played on many of Kenny's records. |
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Fred Amendola
From:
Lancaster, Pa.
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Posted 24 Apr 2014 5:06 pm
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| That's Sonny, twin tracked. Unison is some places, harmony in others. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 24 Apr 2014 6:27 pm
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| Fred Amendola wrote: |
| That's Sonny, twin tracked. Unison is some places, harmony in others. |
Sonny did that a lot. When a band I was in went to Nashville to record a record, the producer asked me if I could play the intro, outro and solo the same way again, note for note. I thought I had messed up and had to re-do my parts. Afterwards, he told me he had worked some with Sonny and he double tracked a lot of his stuff to give a slight chorus effect. It works a lot better that a chorus stomp box.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting. |
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Fred Amendola
From:
Lancaster, Pa.
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Posted 24 Apr 2014 6:37 pm
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| Russ and Weldon are masters at it also. |
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robert kramer
From:
Nashville TN
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Posted 24 Apr 2014 6:47 pm
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| Just to continue the thread - Jimmy Crawford and Russ Hicks were also great at stacking their steels and also their dobros. I was listening to Steel Radio and heard Russ & Randy Beavers upholding the tradition. |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 24 Apr 2014 8:22 pm
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If they really want it played the same way twice, why don't they just bounce it to a second track and offset it by a few milliseconds? Wouldn't that be simpler and faster? Or do they actually want slight intonation differences to create the chorus effect?
_________________
www.JimCohen.com
www.RonstadtRevue.com
www.BeatsWalkin.com |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 24 Apr 2014 8:31 pm
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They way it was explained to me was, they want the slight imperfections that you really couldn't get by bouncing the track. They told me that no one can play anything exactly the same way twice. The intonation, vibrato, and other nuances are what make this technique work so well.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting. |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Posted 25 Apr 2014 4:19 am
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| Copying the track and offsetting it by a few milliseconds works quite well. It greatly fattens the sound and is not at all like a delay effect. Playing the same part again is even better as it has an even fatter more complex sound with both time and pitch differences. Listen to John Hughey on Conway's I've Just Destroyed The World for a classic double track. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 25 Apr 2014 5:41 am
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Recording it twice sounds cooler than delayed cloning because you can vary the offset from note to note.
Those of you with the Seldom Scene Act 4 record can hear Mike do it on Dobro on "Something in the Wind.". Unfortunately I can't find it on YouTube, and I've not spent enough time with Soundcloud or picosong to figure out how to search it.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Mark van Allen
From:
Watkinsville, Ga. USA
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Posted 25 Apr 2014 7:03 am
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Hey, Jim, if you have "Nashville Bar Association" the double tracking is all over that, notably in "Please Come To Boston". It's definitely a thicker, more organic sound than ADT or offset doubling. Great sound.
_________________
Stop by the Steel Store at: www.markvanallen.com
www.musicfarmstudio.com |
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Ron Mishler
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 25 Apr 2014 3:47 pm
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| Thanks guys I can play the solo but that effect just knocks me out and that's why I was driven to learn it. Is there an effect on my Quadreverb GT that would simulate that sound, I mean come close in your experience. Thanks! In search of THE tone.... |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 25 Apr 2014 4:09 pm
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The Beatles used to do that with their voices. Then Ken Townsend at Abbey Road invented a tape delay system called Automatic Double Tracking (ADT), which had almost the same effect but saved a lot of time.
I've emulated the Beatles' ADT effect by using a fast delay that's as loud as the original signal, and adding a bit of flange on the delay signal. It doesn't sound as good as Sonny Garrish, though. There's no substitute for the real thing.
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-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 25 Apr 2014 5:25 pm
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After I came back from Nashville, after that session, I bought an effects unit that has a doubler in it. I was close enough for live work, but still didn't have the quality of sound that double tracking had. You can get a delay box and it can clone the note and delay slightly, but it is the difference in intonation, vibrato, etc that really makes it sound so sweet. There may be effects units now where you can adjust the intonation and vibrato, although I think the unit would be adding a different amount and type of vibrato than what is coming from your hand and sound like doo doo. A doubler is the closest I ever came.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting. |
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Stephen Cowell
From:
Round Rock, Texas, USA
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Posted 25 Apr 2014 8:53 pm
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Try an old Echoplex, set for very quick delay. Part of the charm of these old units is the wow and flutter.
Pricey now... solid-state EP-3's going for $800!
_________________
Too much junk to list... always getting more. |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 26 Apr 2014 7:58 am
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the human factor is what introduces soul into the music.
the hi-tech digital world has allowed no compensation for the lack of human input. you can double, pitch correct, and actually create a performance by bouncing tones on tracks to wherever you want, but there is no soul involved, and therefore no beautiful human element.
no feeling! |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 26 Apr 2014 9:13 am
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Electronics aren't going to pull it off the way it sounds on records. It is more than just doubling. Like I said above, it's a mixture of severals aspects of the players performance. Just one element is the vibrato. No one can exactly duplicate something like this, no matter how hard they try. The second tones vibrato could be faster or slower, or the bar could be above the fret when the original tone's vibrato is below the fret. The same goes for intonation, pick attack, etc...
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting. |
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Jay Ganz
From:
Out Behind The Barn
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Posted 26 Apr 2014 5:21 pm
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| I had to make up an intro for this guy's song *HERE*, so I decided to double-track that section. |
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Clyde Mattocks
From:
Kinston, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 28 Apr 2014 7:51 am
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It's the same with twin fiddle parts. Sounds much better using two seperate fiddles. The natural phasing of the different instruments together is more pleasing.
_________________
LeGrande II, Nash. 112, Fender Twin Tone Master, Session 400, Harlow Dobro, R.Q.Jones Dobro |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Jay Ganz
From:
Out Behind The Barn
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Posted 28 Apr 2014 8:53 am
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| Hey, thanks b0b! I sure appreciate it! |
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Bruce Bouton
From:
Nash. Tn USA
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Posted 4 May 2014 9:36 pm
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Sonny was the master at doubling. He could do a five song demo session and at the end go back and double the first song , first take. That was never my thing though I'd do it on occasion for effect. Ironically the first Skaggs album I did was all doubled.
BB |
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Brad Sarno
From:
St. Louis, MO USA
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Posted 5 May 2014 6:04 am
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The best plug-in yet for this idea, but nothing beats playing it twice.
The best part of this plug-in is the pitch modulation of the delayed part is random, not a consistent sine wave like a typical chorus or flange. The randomness makes it sound a lot more organic.
B
http://www.waves.com/plugins/reel-adt |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 5 May 2014 9:09 am
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| Ron Mishler wrote: |
| Thanks guys I can play the solo but that effect just knocks me out and that's why I was driven to learn it. Is there an effect on my Quadreverb GT that would simulate that sound, I mean come close in your experience. Thanks! In search of THE tone.... |
I'm not real familiar with the Quadraverb, but if it is a delay unit, you can set the delayed note at a very short delay (I forget what amount, but very short) with only 1 repeat so it sounds just like another steel guitar is playing along with you, have the delayed note at the same volume as the original. This should give you a close reproduction of that sound, but it won't be perfect. Double tracking is really the only way I know of to get exactly that sound. Some delay units have a preset for doubling.
An Jay, that was very nice.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 5 May 2014 9:12 am
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Brad... That plug-in looks interesting. But it won't help if you want to create the double tracking experience on stage.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting. |
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