Knee levers configuration

Don Griffiths · From: Steelville, MO

I've got 2 knee levers,4 rods and hardware in hand to add to my current 3/2 set up.
Thank you James Morehead.
My question is this: I've noticed a lot of folks have there E raise and/or Lowers on the left knee . I'm already accustomed to them on the right knee. Is there any good reason to change this? Any standard configurations or all just personal preference ?
I've read a few of the old threads and I've noticed almost every copedant chart I've looked at is a different configuration on the knees. I do know I wanted to lower the d sharp and raise for F sharp for something I was playing in the past.Opinions?
Another question. Should raises go to the right direction and lowers in the left direction? Or lowers on the inner levers and raises on the outer levers?
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Shobud Pro1,BMI U12, Santa Cruz F, PRS Standard, Fender Twin Reverb, ‘53 000-28

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

The only suggestion I'd offer is that you'd want to have any knees you use together moving in opposition (either RKL with LKR or RKR with LKL), as it tends to feel weird to push both legs the same way.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Skip Edwards · From: LA,CA

I've my own opinion as to how they should be set up, but my main observation here is that you can switch them around and get used to a new setup with just a little playing time.
It's not as hard to get used to a new KL setup as you might think.

Don Griffiths · From: Steelville, MO

Thank you Richard, Lane and Skip. Your knowledge is invaluable!
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Shobud Pro1,BMI U12, Santa Cruz F, PRS Standard, Fender Twin Reverb, ‘53 000-28

Paul Sutherland · From: Placerville, California

I wouldn't move the E raise and lower levers. They are just fine on the right knee.

Regarding which specific changes to add with the new levers:

Lowering the second string D# a half tone to D is the first change I would put on. With the second rod you might want to also lower the 9th string a half tone, from D to C#. It's a lesser used change but it has it's uses. Also, it's a very easy change for the steel, and the two changes work well together. Just to be clear, these two changes would both be on one lever.

For the second lever there are many choices, and the best use depends more on you, the music you want to play, and possibly on your steel. Sometimes changes sound great on paper, but you just can't get them to work on your steel. I always opt for simple changes that work reliably, over fancy changes that give me problems.

Raising the F#(s), strings 1 & 7, a half tone to G is a very old change that is not seen all that often, but they are easy changes for the steel. I raise my 7th string a half tone, but it's the one lever that might someday get changed on my steel.

Another common change is lowering the 5th, and possibly the 10th as well, from B to Bb. I have this on a vertical lever on my steel (5th only), and I use it frequently. It works just as well on a horizontal oriented lever.

A lot of guys swear by lowering the sixth string G# a full tone to F#. To do this you usually have to use a plain sixth string (not a wound string because the change requires too much travel for a wound string). I've tried the change and it has interesting possibilities, but I ended up removing it because it made keeping the sixth string in tune too much of a problem. But that's just my preference.

If it was my steel I'd go with lowering the 5th and 10th a half tone for the second new lever.

Good luck.
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It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Dustin Rigsby · From: Parts Unknown, Ohio

Nope,there is no good reason to move them.
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D.S. Rigsby

Carl Williams · From: Oklahoma

Don, just a thought but do you have any problems with working the right E knee levers in conjunction with your volume pedal? My first steel, MSA, back in '74 had the knees setup on the right...as was mentioned, it didn't take long to get use to them on the left knee. As with most E9th pickers, my left E knee levers are my bread/butter, go to levers and looking back, I think it could have interfered or maybe altered my use of the volume pedal in a negative way. Again, just a thought to consider with moving the E's to the left knee. You might want to find someone close by that has their E's on the left knee and give it a test drive. Carl

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Tom Gorr · From: Three Hills, Alberta

If you put anything on the left knee, its important to understand the relation between your pedal and knee movements whether you have emmons or day pedal arrangement; that will govern knee lever placement on left knee.

I started with the e knee levers on right, msa style, but ultimately tried the e-f raise on the lkl. The advantage of this location is that at the first inversion +3 position with A pedal down you can start with the e lower and engage the e-f lever as u r letting off the e lower lever, and once that becomes a part of the playing experience, its hard to justify any other way.

My new2me shobud has the e moves on the left knee, I prefer having them both on the left knee to both on the right knee.

Ultimately it is preference but to establish preference it is in fact necessary to try the different options.

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

I have both on my left knee and would never move them to the right knee. I prefer my left leg doing most of the work. I play "Day" style, so my E - D# is on LKL and E - F on LKR. With this configuration (and the opposite setup for Emmons style players), when I press the B pedal, my knee would normally want to go in the direction I roll my ankle. To the left in this case. And the opposite is true for the A pedal and F lever, but this time they go to right. Actually, my knee doesn't move at all when pressing or or rolling from one pedal to another, but having them set up like this makes sense to me.

On the subject of one change on the left and one on the right so you can go from the D# to F, I can get that same change several other places on my guitar and don't want to give up any possibilities for lever/pedal combinations to get a sound I can get several other ways. I know there are players from both camps and we can argue all day as to what is best, but it is still just "players preferences".
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Not to mention that, if you use the D#-C# lever like I do, as a melodic move of a whole step often moving to or from unison with one of the other strings, the 2nd string drop gets used with BOTH the D# and E# levers. If you put the D# and E# levers on opposite legs, then you give up one of those. I don't care whether my E raises and lowers go on their own, but they have to be on the same leg so that I can have the 2nd string drop free for either of them.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Paul Sutherland · From: Placerville, California

You'll do just fine with any of the common knee lever changes mentioned here. Don't get too obsessed with finding the perfect knee lever set-up. It doesn't exist. Every set-up is a compromise.

Look at Lloyd Green's set-up in the copedents section of the links above. You can't get much simpler. And he breaks all the normal rules. (He raises his Es to Fs on LKR when using Emmons floor pedals. Tom Brumley did the same thing!! Try playing the A & F combo with that set-up.)

What made Lloyd a great player was not his knee levers or pedals. It was his touch, intonation, tone, and creativeness with what he had.

Execution is everything!!! Audiences are far more impressed by good clean execution and musicianship (if that's a word), than they are by fancy licks enabled by exotic pedals or levers.

No amount of levers or pedals will make a great player out of someone who doesn't spend a huge amount of time working on execution and developing good musical ideas.
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It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing.

Don Griffiths · From: Steelville, MO

No Carl I haven't had problems with the volume pedal with the E's on the right. But I have noticed my L knee wanting to kick out when playing the A pedal only which will make it convenient to raise the E with the LKL. Maybe the E lower will follow to the left side later. After working on it a little bit it's not as complicated to change things around as I'd imagined. It is making sense to have the E's on the same side so as not to prevent other combinations.
String 2 and 9 will get a lever. Them B string lowers are sounding good to me. Let me tell you brothers, I have some Saddddd songs to play Crying or Very sad

Alas, didn't have time to work on or play the guitar today. Had to get the lettuce,broccoli and cabbage in the dirt before the rain tonight.
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Shobud Pro1,BMI U12, Santa Cruz F, PRS Standard, Fender Twin Reverb, ‘53 000-28

Don Griffiths · From: Steelville, MO

Schitt...levers going back for rework. This is making me think hard about raiding the retirement account for a U12.
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Shobud Pro1,BMI U12, Santa Cruz F, PRS Standard, Fender Twin Reverb, ‘53 000-28

Mike Wheeler · From: Delaware, Ohio, USA

Jason Lynch · From: Essex, United Kingdom

Can open
Worms everywhere....
Laughing

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

I just put some replacement levers on my guitar and took the opportunity to change things round a bit. I've tried the F lever in various places but to me it feels most natural next to the A pedal (which for me is LKR as I play Day).

I have the E lower on RKL (because that's where I would probably put it on a uni if I ever get one). Because my guitar is pull release with added bits of undercarriage, this means that if I do like Tom mentions and hit +3 & A with the E's lowered, I can then engage the F lever without having to release the lower, as the raise trumps the lower like a P/P. This is real smooth. Not to say I won't change it again....

Worms are very important for the ecosystem.

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Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs

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