Curious about the Carters

Bill Miller · From: Gaspe, Quebec, Canada

I've been watching this forum for several months now, soaking up information and getting a feel for what I might like to get for a better steel guitar if I'm ever able to upgrade. Initially I was very interested in the Carters since they are generally less expensive than some of the older names. But over time I've seen what looks like a bit of a disturbing pattern developing. Is it just my imagination or do a lot players seem to be buying the Carters and giving them high praise only to be putting them up for sale a year or so later? I keep checking the 'Buy & Sell' section and it seems like most of the Carters that come up for sale are fairly recent purchases. Does anyone know why that is?

Larry Behm · From: Mt Angel, Or 97362

I was one of them. I had my blue Carter for about 2 years, went back to a PP Emmons, that is just me. Loved the Carter and would STILL encourage others to take a strong look at them.

Larry Behm

Joey Ace · From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

Brian Edwards · From: Santa Fe, NM USA

You might be seeing alot being sold simply because there are alot of them out there. Also, they always seem to go pretty quickly when they become available, so I would guess (having never owned or played one) that they are desirable (to say the least).

[This message was edited by Brian Edwards on 17 November 2003 at 08:04 AM.]

Bill Miller · From: Gaspe, Quebec, Canada

Well I'm not on any kind of a witch-hunt here. I may well end up selecting a Carter eventually. It's just that I always do a lot of research before I make any major purchase and I like to look at all the angles. There seems to be a difference of about $750U.S. between a S10-DB Carter and most of the other company's S10-DBs, so it's normal to wonder why. What allows them to be made and sold for so much less?

Richard Tipple · From: Ohio, USA

I think Carters are like diamonds, they dont loose anything in value.
I have owned my Carter for a few years now & I love it as much as the first day I played it so I guess Carter owners know when they have an edge when selling them

Larry Phleger · From: DuBois, PA

Here I go again! I have owned a Carter for several years. I have never owned any piece of musical equipment that is as reliable and good sounding as it is. It stays in tune, doesn't weigh a ton, and has never given me any problems. IMHO you can't do better!

David Doggett · Posted 17 Nov 2003 10:58 am

I'm with Brian, you see a lot of Carters being traded on the used market simply because there are a lot of them out there. Some are being sold because the owner got another Carter with new esthetics or expanded possibilities. I find the Carter to be structurally and mechanically the equal of some higher priced PSGs. The price difference may simply be from higher sales volumes and more cost-efficient design and manufacturing. The GFI is a similar case. Also, both Carters and GFIs are intentionally designed more compact and lighter. Even though this may be functionally equal to more traditional heftier designs, it has an esthetic and psychological impact. I think a lot of players feel they are getting more with the heftier and costlier designs, even if it is only psychological.

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Student of the Steel, Fessy S12U, Emmons S12 E9 P/P, Carter D12, Fender Custom Vibrasonic into JBL 15", Nashville 400, POD XT, Fender Squire, Peavey Transtube Supreme, 1968 Gibson J50, '60s Kay arch-top, 7-string Raybro, customized Korean Regal square-neck, roundneck Dobro 90C, 1938 Conn Chu Berry tenor sax, '50s Berg mouthpiece, Hamilton upright piano, Casio keyboard. You make it, I'll play it (sort of).

John Drury · From: Gallatin, Tn USA

Bill,

Check out the Carter website a lot is explained there about keeping their cost down. I think I read in there that the two main things are the factory direct situation that they have and the fact that there are no giveaways. After buying one and inspecting it up close I can testify that it isn't because they cut any corners, it is a well built rig and there are no inferior materials used its construction. I think the way that the mechanics are laid out on the guitar is pure genious. I would also like to say that I didn't buy the Carter because that was all I could afford, it was what I wanted and I looked at them all.

I don't think that there is any real junk being built these days from what I see. Most of the guitars on the market today are pretty decent merchandise and with the selection of amps and effects there has never been a better time to be a steeler than right now. JMO

John Drury
NTSGA #3

David Friedlander · From: New York, New York, USA

I think John hit the nail on the head- there's a lot of great equipment available today.
I think that a pedal steel guitar can be looked at in many different ways. One way is to look at the utility of an axe. Another way is look at these instruments as an expression of an artisans work. I mean, one of the legends- Emmons P/P- is not exactly pretty.

Personally, I find tremendous appeal in the quality of the woodwork on a guitar.
If someone wants a wood guitar, it's not like buying a mica. There are quite a few "drop dead" laquer guitars on the market today. Going back to what John said- if you're looking for a wooden guitar, there are quite a few amazing choices today.

I can see the advantages of mica, that's why I also have a Carter on order (S10, mica). I'm anxious to get it and play it.

Jeff A. Smith · From: Angola,Ind. U.S.A.

One thing that may help keep the cost down is the fact that Carter uses a stamped aluminum neck. If you get on the Carter website, or talk to Bud or John Fabian, I believe you'll find that in Bud Carter's conception of steel guitar tone the neck plays a minimal, or even a non-existent role.

On Carters, (at least the standard pro models with the stamped aluminum neck), the neck is basically a fretboard and nothing more.

[This message was edited by Jeff A. Smith on 17 November 2003 at 07:12 PM.]

David Cobb · From: Chanute, Kansas, USA

As to the question of why new Carter's were lower priced, did it have something to do with wanting to gain a foothold in a market where there were already many makes (and loyal owners)?
Just a hunch.

Steven Black · From: Gahanna, Ohio, USA

Hello Bill, I have an older Carter which I love a lot, I have had professional players play it and it sounds just as good as an emmons next to an emmons, you will just have to go and find someone who has one you can sit down at and play it, Ann Fabian and John
Fabian can give you a name of someone who lives maybe close to you who owns one for you to try out, get in touch with them.
steveb carter D10 8+5.

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

Many times in business as we all know..folks manufacture similar items. (Business 101 please )

He that can control costs ( and debt) and become more efficient in manufacturing ,and continuously look for ways to improve the process can and will become more price competitive than his neighbor.

One has to only turn the Carter Steel over and look at it underneath to understand that Bud and John are not building toys.

This is not to say that other manufacturers are not efficient in manufacturing and controlling costs..but the folks at Carter certainly are and the result is a savings on a modern era Steel of High Quality.

It's time for the entire Steel Guitar community to recognize that the Carter Steel is a dominant force in the Steel Guitar world..I'm a die hard Tele' player but I do know that the Les Paul is out there and is a killer axe.......It's not a piece of junk because I don't play one.( although I did when I was a much younger Rock+Roll nut case)

Good luck, you will not be disappointed with a Carter Steel should that be the brand you choose.

TP

[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 18 November 2003 at 04:43 AM.]

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Joseph Barcus · From: Volga West Virginia

hmm ill lay low on this one, i think most knows why,

Gary Preston · From: Columbus, Ohio, USA

It seems to me that some of the manufacturers that have a good guitar have some funny pricing . Example ''Mica'' for (just pick a number) example $2995.00 and if you want ''birdseye'' maple add another $700.00 . I really dont think there is that much maple in 5 or 6 guitars to justify that. And i think we know who these people are ! Remember this is just my openion . By the way there is one in Mn. that does'nt do that. Oh boy am i in trouble now !

Jim Palenscar · From: Oceanside, Calif, USA

Make one of each yourself and you'd quickly understand the difference in price.

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

So how much should a highly select piece of maple be with a premium finish ?

In comparison, when I was at St Louis in 2002, the Derby with the maple body stained Rose color with stained blonde wood necks that I fell in love with was almost $1000 more than the mica covered D10. And in my little pea brain mind it was well worth it.This Steel in my opinion hands down was the finest looking Steel in the building..but thats just me.

These days before you can actually make an Instrument with a quality piece if wood you actually have to find the premium wood and negotiate a reasonable price..from there you can start your plans of building the body.

How many pieces of wood do you have to go thru to find a quality piece with no flaws ? Or rather, how long of a length do you have to use up to get a quality piece worthy of an Instrument. Woodshop 101 please...

Been to Lowes lately ?

Are these the best Steels available on the market ? Know one said they were..Are they quality Instruments that are dependable ,reliable and are a good value for the player ? Yes...Will they hold up and stay in tune ? Oh yeh....

To me the only thing you don't get with a Carter is the bragging rights associated with other brands .

Is a Telecaster a high quality constructed beauty like a Les Paul or 335 ? No way..

It's a cheap 3 piece slab in comparison..but it's still a highly respected, highly played and understood classic...probably the cheapest electric guitar ever developed on US soil.

And then theres the classic line..

" Oh..you play a Carter ? "
" I heard they are not that good"

and the response is always the same..

" Did you ever play one ? "

We know whats coming next..

The issues that I see that are important when comparing this Steel to another brand is that, yes, it is slightly smaller and the string spacing is slightly closer. These are legitimate comparison features. I am a small kinda guy 5'8"( belly growing) and this Steel is very comfortable for me. I would prefer slightly wider string spacing though.

But at the end of the day my 9+8 D10 is a fine Steel and does it all..well make that capable of doing it all that is...

Happy Wednesday

TP

[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 19 November 2003 at 03:38 AM.]

norm mcdaniel · From: waco tx

Tony P. You are so right. Good reply
Have a nice day

Norm

Al Marcus · From: Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)

Bill-I think you have most of the answers that were posted. A good one is they make the most guitars, so there would be more on the market.

I can give you my expierence on "why used
Carters are seemingly for sale more than other brands.

I have a S10 2002 Carter with 3/5 just like new for sale. Why? I'm going back to a Single 12 Carter.

I had a D10 Carter and decided I would rather go back to S10 or 12.
I wish I could get a D12 Carter, they are still lighter weight than some other brands.
But a S12 Carter is a lot lighter and I don't need a D10 to play my "Lean and Mean' E6-E9-E13 tuning. I can even make the "Lean and Mean" work on a S10.
Lots of guys are selling their D10 Carter for S12 Carters, or vica versa.

Some are selling their S10 Carters and getting D10 Carters. Or sometimes just want to try something new.

If you are looking for a good used steel guitar, The Steel Guitar Forum is the place to buy it! You will get your best "Deal" here.......................al

.

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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

Guest · Posted 19 Nov 2003 2:00 pm

Anybody who thinks Carters don't sound good should get themselves a copy of Back to Back II with Junior Knight and Gary Hogue. Gary plays a push pull, Junior plays a Carter. I'd be happy to sound like either of them. If you can tell the difference, then there's a difference. If you can't, there isn't.

Keith Currie · From: Shellbrook, Saskatchewan, Canada

What is Junior playing these days?

John Drury · From: Gallatin, Tn USA

Kieth,

The last time I saw Jr. was at the NTSGA Jam in October, he was playing an MSA Millenium loafer that he said belonged to the factory. I asked him if he still had the Carter and he said yes he had two Carter guitars and "loved them".

I must say the tone he was getting out of that Millenium was incredible! As good as I've ever heard. He was doing a set with Bobby Bowman, both of those dudes were right on top of their game that day.

John Drury
NTSGA #3

Jody Carver · From: KNIGHT OF FENDER TWEED

Many people view a product with limited visibility and feel that a product that is a
"cult" type of thing is by far the most desirable.

That is true with many products today not necessarily with musical instrumets. The harder they are to find makes them more intrigueing to Joe public or one who wants that special item.

Rolex watches are an example.They are expensive and quality made,but what makes them so much in demand is their not mass advertising and availablity. Whereas Seiko and others are seen everywhere. I feel marketing a steel guitar should be given to those who can truly do the product justice and not just have a steel guitar sitting on the show room floor as an ornament with people who have little or no interest in selling the product. I would rather see a manufacturer sell direct and if need be have
someone with product knowledge do a regional
clinic with the product among owners of the particular instrument and perspective buyers
this would eliminate the mis guided customer and help sales as well as create more interest.

Quality or not,,if it takes a long time to get what you want,makes you want it all the more.

That is my opinion. Carter makes a fine instrument,but there are those that take a year to get that have that mystique.

Supply and demand. No Supply more demand.

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