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Topic: Blocking |
Jason Putnam
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 15 Apr 2014 5:49 pm |
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I am having the hardest time blocking. I have watched all kinds of youtube videos about palm blocking and pick blocking. I can't palm block at all!!If i am playing something fast I can not pick block. I practice practice practice and it doesn't get any better. Im frustrated and don't know what else to do. I keep hearing to play more and not worry about blocking and it will happen. But its not happening!! I play along with songs, loop the parts, go over them a million times and still can't get it right. If I play it at a snails pace I can do it. But not up to speed!
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1967 Emmons Bolt On, 1995 Mullen PRP 3x5,Nashville 112, JOYO Digital Delay, Goodrich Volume Pedal, Livesteel Strings |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 15 Apr 2014 6:11 pm
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Blocking is something that you have to practice at. It won't come to you by itself, no matter what others tell you. I don't think there is an experienced player on this forum that doesn't have a flat spot on their head from beating it against the wall when practicing blocking.
What could help us to help you is if you can get a picture of how you hold your hand when playing. A video would be even better. If there are other players nearby, get together with one (or more) and have them take a look at what you are doing.
| Quote: |
| If I play it at a snails pace I can do it |
I just had to learn the solo for a song my band does, and I worked for several hours on it using Amazing Slowdowner. I got all the notes down at the snails pace you mention. Then I increased the speed a little at a time. The fastest I could play it was at 75%. When I got to rehearsal, I ripped right through it with no problem. My advice? Start slow and don't try to go faster than you physically can at the moment. If you have Amazing Slowdowner, try doing it like I did. You'll be surprised at how good it works.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Dick Sexton
From:
Greenville, Ohio
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Posted 15 Apr 2014 6:22 pm Blocking...
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Me: "How come I can't block, it seems to be impossible."
Jeff Newman: Well, show me what your doing... (A smile, as only JN could do it)
Me: pick block pick block pick block... etc.
JN: Oh, I see your problem. Your suppose to block and then pick. Like this... block pick block pick block pick.. etc.
Me: What's the difference?
JN: Lay your hand on the strings, only raise it when you want to make a noise. There, your palm blocking.
Me: How high should I raise my hand.
JN: If the string is vibrating 1/32 of an inch, 2/32 will work.
True story as best I can remember it. |
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Don Griffiths
From:
Steelville, MO
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Posted 15 Apr 2014 6:51 pm
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Me too Jason, Me too! I'm slowing down and practicing across the strings as slow as it takes to get it right. And slowly improving. I'm off to go practice a bit now.
_________________
Shobud Pro1,BMI U12, Santa Cruz F, PRS Standard, Fender Twin Reverb, ‘53 000-28 |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 15 Apr 2014 6:53 pm Re: Blocking...
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| Dick Sexton wrote: |
JN: Lay your hand on the strings, only raise it when you want to make a noise. There, your palm blocking.
Me: How high should I raise my hand.
JN: If the string is vibrating 1/32 of an inch, 2/32 will work.
True story as best I can remember it. |
That's about it, in a nutshell. The only place I disagree is with his 1/32" or 2/32" numbers. It's much easier to say around 1/8" which is a more realistic (and easier guaged) number. 
Jason, get a good teacher, if only for a lesson or two. (It's really hard to learn this stuff just staring at a screen.) You need feedback on what you're doing, and you simply can't get that from a book, a tape, a DVD, or by watching YouTube.  |
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 15 Apr 2014 7:40 pm
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I only play the runs I can pick block....HAHA...if you're having problems with string one and two, you need to "wipe them clean" with your bar hand by moving your bar laterally and dragging your middle finger over them...that's a bit of a standard trick...
Some say its bad technique, some say go for it...if you have a specific string you can't pick block, use your thumb on your bar hand. That can get to be second nature in a hurry.
Outside of this, get some Joe Wright courses on pick blocking...he has the whole thing down to an exact science and practice methods to master it in all aspects. Sign up for a Joe Wright seminar. Don't ever pass that up.
Last edited by Tom Gorr on 15 Apr 2014 9:39 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Larry Jackson
From:
Morrilton, AR
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Posted 15 Apr 2014 8:57 pm
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I'm just getting started myself. After i have gotten a handle on the grips, scales, pedals, knee levers, and the coordination of all of these...blocking properly will be an ongoing challenge. How to play cleanly and articulate each note. Oh, I didn't even mention the volume pedal...but I'm waiting till I'm ready for that. Just the basics for now.
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BMI S10, Beard E model reso, Gold Tone Deluxe Beard Sig. reso, Guild acoustic guitar |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 15 Apr 2014 10:29 pm
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| Quote: |
Some say its bad technique, some say go for it...if you have a specific string you can't pick block, use your thumb on your bar hand. That can get to be second nature in a hurry.
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Not me (and I don't know any others off hand that do). It's just another tool in your tool box. I use my left thumb a lot when I am using string 9 as a 7th in the no pedals position and have to slide to another chord that I don't want to have that 7th tone. Even when staying at the same fret going from, say, an E7 with no pedals to an A chord with pedals down.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 16 Apr 2014 12:28 am
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The Winston/Keith book explains palm blocking, and mentions that it takes PRACTICE.
BTW, it's easy to overthink.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Anders Eriksson
From:
Mora, Dalecarlia, Sweden
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Posted 16 Apr 2014 12:40 am Re: Blocking...
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| Dick Sexton wrote: |
Me: pick block pick block pick block... etc.
JN: Oh, I see your problem. Your suppose to block and then pick. Like this... block pick block pick block pick.. etc.
Me: What's the difference?
JN: Lay your hand on the strings, only raise it when you want to make a noise. There, your palm blocking.
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I have just realized this! I have had major problems with blocking and just by changing my mindset from pick block pick to block pick block has made me make a great progress!
// Anders
_________________
Fessenden D-10, Stage One S-10, Peavey Nashville 112, Boss LMB-3, Goodrich 120; Regal RD-38VS Resonator |
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Dick Sexton
From:
Greenville, Ohio
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Posted 16 Apr 2014 5:42 am Blocking Speed?
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After a good nights sleep and seeing a few more posts on this subject, I offer this profound statement. One, not needed to be addressed by Jeff Newman at our brief encounter. My one and only Newman seminar...
Every blocking technique has a speed limit. Wow!
But more...
Every player using "whatever" blocking technique, has a personal speed limit. Double wow!
But... That limit can be raised with practice and persistence. Mound of books, CDs, DVDs, Youtubes and others have been produced on how to accomplish the act of raising a persons personal speed limit. Mostly it boils down to practice.
My thoughts... If you've never done something repeatedly and correctly, how can you ever expect to do it fast, or precise, or with feeling under pressure or maybe at all. This could apply to many things, and does...
Want to pick block? Immerse yourself in Joe Wright.
Want to palm block? Jeff Newman, Lloyd Green and many others. Just my personal thought & opinions. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 16 Apr 2014 6:43 am
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As a beginner, I'm finding all this really helpful. I've watched Joe Wright videos where he pick-blocks, it makes sense, and I can do it, slowly. The penny has dropped with palm-blocking - that stopping the previous note/chord and starting the next one is the same action - so I can do it, slowly, although I'm having to work on my hand shape to stop certain strings "escaping" through the creases in my palm.
I'm working through the De Witt Scott book which mentions both ways but doesn't specifically recommend either - so I practice each exercise both ways, slowly. Experience on other instruments tells me it will speed up on its own if I don't push it. In the meantime I just concentrate on getting the cleanest sound I can.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Jim Williams
From:
Meridian, Mississippi, USA - Home of Peavey!
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Posted 16 Apr 2014 7:16 am
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JN: If the string is vibrating 1/32 of an inch, 2/32 will work.
I love that line.
And palm blocking is an uphill battle for me as well, but I just keep practicing and maybe someday it will fall into place consistently.
_________________
GFI SM10 3/4, 1937 Gibson EH-150, 2 - Rondo SX Lap Steels and a Guyatone 6 String C6. Peavey 400 and a Roland 40 Amps. Behringer Reverb Pedal. |
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Sonny Jenkins
From:
Texas Masonic Retirement Center,,,Arlington Tx
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Posted 16 Apr 2014 9:19 am
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| Try just a slow, gentle "staccato" type of "bouncing" on/off the strings,,,,like you're just having fun,,,playing so to speak. Point that index finger knuckle in the air,,,,ala Jeff Newman,,,and Buddy Emmons,,,and ????? |
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Dale Hansen
From:
Hendersonville,Tennessee, (USA)
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Posted 16 Apr 2014 11:31 am
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Jason,
It's getting way too cerebral. Let your own body - (right hand), teach itself.
Focus on the sounds that you want to make, and, let your own hands, sub-consciously, make the necessary adjustments. You need to be able to trust yourself enough to allow things to just 'happen',..but they will.
Many years ago, I never did consciously set out to teach myself to pick-block on specific chromatic string patterns, and runs. I simply concentrated on the way that I wanted them to sound, and it just..'happened'.
A big part of my own 'revelation' was a timely phone conversation with Bruce Bouton. It was concerning the importance of the 'absence' of thought process, or analysis into such things...
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Bessdang Gizmos - "An Equal Opportunity Annoyer" |
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J. David Carrera
From:
Los Angeles, CA
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Posted 16 Apr 2014 1:57 pm
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| A few months ago, for no reason in particular, I tried playing my steel with a regular guitar pick and something about the way I hold a guitar pick helped me understand how I should place my hand/palm for blocking. I've only been playing steel for six months so I'm certainly no expert on the subject but palm blocking is slowing coming to me and I think this really helped. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 16 Apr 2014 2:06 pm
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I have no doubt pick blocking is faster in many instances. I do banjo rolls using pick blocking, and 7 or 8 notes a second is no problem...and I'm a hacker! But speed only does so much, so you have to concentrate on making music, and not just really fast sounds. That's where the real challenge comes in. 
Learn all methods of blocking, for each has advantages in certain situations. |
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Larry Behm
From:
Mt Angel, Or 97362
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Posted 16 Apr 2014 4:08 pm
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Jason are you on Skype, if not sign up, lets talk.
971-219-8533
Larry Behm
_________________
'70 D10 Black fatback Emmons PP, Hilton VP, BJS bars, Boss GE-7 for Dobro effect, Zoom MS50G, Stereo Steel amp, Telonics 15” speaker.
Phone: 971-219-8533 |
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Jason Putnam
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 17 Apr 2014 2:41 pm
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Watched a Paul Sutherland video on YouTube about Palm blocking. Watched some of David Hartley. When I turn my hand a curled up like that I can't do anything.
_________________
1967 Emmons Bolt On, 1995 Mullen PRP 3x5,Nashville 112, JOYO Digital Delay, Goodrich Volume Pedal, Livesteel Strings |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 17 Apr 2014 5:46 pm
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i'm with dale on this. i never really thought about blocking. just tried to play cleanly. everyone is so hung up on it now it seems like a nightmare. i like to play without thinking.
good to hear that dale, bruce and other older pros don't need that terminology or the hangups that go along with it. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 17 Apr 2014 10:28 pm
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Chris, while a lot can be said for playing without thinking, the more one knows about how to play (and by know, I mean knows it so well that it comes naturally without thinking), the better the output of one's reflexive playing will be.
It's kinda like speaking (or more accurately, writing), in that if you paid attention in English class, the rules of grammar and syntax live in your head, and you don't have to think about how to say what you're typing, you just think the concepts, and your fingers handle the spelling and grammar for you: if you're new to English, or you were admiring the teacher's bosom instead of learning, this whole expressed yourself thing gets hard.
One of these days, I WILL buckle down and learn pick blocking, because people I respect say it's valid and helpful.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 18 Apr 2014 1:39 am
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What Lane says, plus...
A lifetime of playing brass instruments has shown me that the greatest players don't always make the best teachers. What they do comes so naturally that they've never had to analyse it, so they cannot pass it on successfully. Some of the best teachers I've known had poor teachers themselves and had to work it out largely unaided.
So? If you find it coming naturally, enjoy. On the steel I am finding the right hand tough as I have no transferrable skills from other instruments, but I know it will work in time if I do a mixture of thinking about it, and mechanical exercises with brain disengaged. What Dale says may not seem at first sight like very practical advice, but I know what he means - what you do must ultimately be driven by the sound - is that not what made us want to play in the first place?
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Bruce Morrison
From:
Panama City Florida, USA
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Posted 18 Apr 2014 3:31 am
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| Ian Rae wrote: |
| ...On the steel I am finding the right hand tough as I have no transferrable skills from other instruments, but I know it will work in time if I do a mixture of thinking about it, and mechanical exercises with brain disengaged. What Dale says may not seem at first sight like very practical advice, but I know what he means - what you do must ultimately be driven by the sound - is that not what made us want to play in the first place? |
Zero knowledge about the issue at hand (I'm still trying to work to make my basic grips sound non-horrible, though I will say that the bit about it being more about releasing that block than applying it was useful). But what Ian says here gives me a thought... I wonder if someone teaching Pedal Steel could analyze the instruments you DO know how to play and, from previous teaching experience, plan a syllabus around the gaps of skills you probably never learned before...
For instance... one thing I've always wanted to do is learn to play with thumb and finger picks... the way some guitar players can do banjo style rolls has alway appealed to me. I've bought them several times in the past, but never took the hard effort to get used to them, since it was a "nice to have" rather than a "must have". Same was always true about using a flat pick... until I was asked to play some rhythm guitar a year or two ago, I never really spent any time on that technique.
So, give someone a questionairre, finding that they have played banjo for 10 years might give them a point of reference to start with that student on. I know that when I learn a new programming language, it usually goes something like "In language A, an if/then behaves thusly... how does it work in language B?"
For my part, I've been a bass player since I was very young (12 or so), and I long ago learned to palm mute (or, at least the bass version of a palm mute... the angle is TOTALLY different). So, that should be a starting point to either showing how to apply that skill OR a warning about bad habits learned 
A very meta concept, but it's early and I'm feeling like it must be a Meta Friday... |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 18 Apr 2014 6:15 am
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I played bass for years and find it no help at all!
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Jim Williams
From:
Meridian, Mississippi, USA - Home of Peavey!
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Posted 18 Apr 2014 6:44 am
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I've played banjo a while and being used to the finger and thumb picks helped. I play with them so much now I almost feel naked without a set on. I also play several other stringed instruments, so I already knew a bit about basic chord theory and the Nashville numbering system, etc. Playing the other stuff for years also helps with finding melodies by ear, something that is coming around for me with non pedal but I'm still struggling with on the pedal steel. For me proper blocking has been the biggest hurdle of all.
_________________
GFI SM10 3/4, 1937 Gibson EH-150, 2 - Rondo SX Lap Steels and a Guyatone 6 String C6. Peavey 400 and a Roland 40 Amps. Behringer Reverb Pedal. |
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