Tele 4 way switch wiring info needed please

Walter Bowden · From: Wilmington, North Carolina, USA

I know this is off topic for steel guitars/amps/effects but I'm hoping some of the members who also play guitar may be able to help me.

I have a Zion 50 which is essentially a Telecaster and I am trying to hook up a 4 way switch to get the "fat" tone setting w/ both pups in series.

I recently turned the control plate 180" so the volume knob is better to reach and the selector switch is at the back. This was when I had the 3 way stock switch in it. No problem doing that but I can't seem to find a 4 way switch wiring diagram oriented with the control plate reversed.

The ones I have downloaded illustrate a stock control plate set up, aren't consistent with wiring (Seymour Duncan for instance has it one way and others have it another way) and I have been unsuccessful in trying to reverse the diagrams on paper and in my head. I have done a lot of soldering pups and switches, etc. but this thing is giving me a hedache. I know it can't be too hard but any help with finding an easy to understand wiring diagram for 4 way switch with the control plate reversed would be appreciated. Best wishes. Walter
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Emmons S10, p/p, Nashville 112, Zion 50 tele style guitar, Gibson LP Classic w/Vox AC30, Fender Deluxe De Ville and a Rawdon-Hall classical

Bill L. Wilson · From: Oklahoma, USA

I don't think there is a 4way Tele blade type switch. All I've ever seen or installed in a Tele or Strat style guitar, is 3or5 way switches. My Tele is set up with 3pick-ups, but with a standard 3way switch, and a micro-toggle, to turn the mid-pick up off or on. The only combination I can't get with that set-up, is the mid. pick-up by itself.

Lee Warren · From: Nashville, Tennessee, USA

I have a 4 way Tele switch (from Allparts), but haven't installed it yet.

Here is information from Stew-Mac that might help.
Note the part about the neck pickup minor modification ...

Position 1 Bridge pickup
Position 2 Neck and Bridge in parallel (standard Tele neck/bridge configuration)
Position 3 Neck pickup
Position 4 Neck and Bridge in series

The lever switch can be installed with the spring facing either sideâ€”there's no difference, electrically.

Minor modification to the neck pickup is necessary for this setup. The cover must be disconnected from the black lead of the pickup, then run to the ground with separate lead wire.

String ground on a Tele is usually made by the metal baseplate of the bridge pickup contacting the metal bridge. If your pickup doesn't have a metal baseplate, run a string ground wire from the back of the volume pot to the underside of the bridge.

Reduce unwanted electrical noise by using shielded coaxial cable for your longer wiring runs (for example, the connection between the controls and the output jack). Coaxial cable contains a center "hot" conductor which is shielded by an outer braid used for the ground wire.

For short connections between components, use standard non-shielded wire. Typically, white wire is used for hot and black for ground.

Hope this helps,
Lee

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

Bill, there definitely are 4-way Tele switches. For example, here:
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Electronics,_pickups/Components:_Switches_and_knobs/Oak_Grigsby_4-way_2-pole_Lever_Switch.html

a basic 4-way Tele diagram here:
http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7440801/Guitar%20Wiring/Tele4-Way.jpg

or if you want to get more complex, there are many more here:
https://sites.google.com/site/phostenixwiringdiagrams/teles/2-pickup-teles

Walter, I think you're making this too complex. Of course, it's not difficult to trace the wiring of the standard diagram to the reversed orientation, but it's not necessary. I assume you want the volume control all the way to the front (closest to neck), tone control next, and then the switch in back, and want the 4-way switch to work in the usual way - i.e., front (closest to neck) switch position (diagram calls this position 4) to give you neck+bridge in series; position 3 neck-only; position 2 neck+bridge in parallel, and position 1 (fully to the rear) bridge-only. The standard 4-way diagram will work, and you can do two things to make it look the same:

1. Orient the switch, which is now in the back of the control plate, exactly the way it was when it was in the front (it's not necessary, but now everything will look the same).

2. Orient the volume and tone controls exactly as for the standard orientation - i.e., volume pot tabs towards the rear of the guitar, tone pot tabs toward the front.

Using that simple 4-way diagram for reference (this assumes your control plate is upside-down on top of its cavity):

Now just run wires to/from the switch and each pot exactly like in the standard 4-way diagram. In other words, labeling the upper switch terminals on the switch from left to right U1, U2, U3, U4, U5, and the lower switch terminals L1, L2, L3, L4, L5: then the bridge hot wire (yellow) goes to the first upper-left terminal on the switch U1; the neck pu hot wire (white) goes to U2, jump U2 and U3, which also goes to the bottom tab on the Vol pot; jump L2 and L3 and then L3 goes to Vol Pot can; jump L4 and U5; neck ground (black) to L5; neck pu cover ground (green) and bridge ground (black) to Vol Pot can; string ground to Vol Pot can; middle Vol Pot tab to output jack tip; and so on - everything exactly as in the diagram, point-to-point. The only thing that is different is that the switch is to the right now, and the vol/tone pot pair is to the left.

As long as your parts are correct (Lee is correct - the neck pickup is modified from a stock vintage Tele pickup) and you want the switch positions and vol/tone controls to work the same as 'normal', it should work.

Per Berner · From: Skovde, Sweden

These are the instructions that came with the Fender original 4-way switch I bought for one of my Telecasters. That one has an aftermarket neck pickup with no cover, so that modification was unnecessary. Easy to install, works fine.

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Joey Ace · From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

I've installed and use the 4-Way switch in my main Tele. I'd do it again. The series pup setting is useful when I need a boost. Almost a humbucker sound.

I use the wiring diagram shown in Dave M's and Per's posts.
What is called position 4 is when the switch is pointed toward the neck. In a 3-way switch that would be the neck pup only.

Others prefer different configs. That's just personal taste.

Be sure to detach the neck pup's cover ground, and run it back to a pot case ground.

Bill A. Moore · From: Silver City, New Mexico, USA

I don't intend to change the subject, but I, like Walter, am in the process of this same modification. Does anyone here use, or feel the need to add a "treble bleed" cap?

Joey Ace · From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

Ollin Landers · From: Willow Springs, NC

I put a set of Bill Lawrence pickups in my Tele about 3yrs ago. This is what Bill suggested for a 5 way switch.

I get classic Tele tones, some Strat quack and a little more bite from the neck pickup. This lets me run the tone pot treble backed off some when using the neck pickup.

The original diagram is on Bill and Becky's website.

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Zum SD-12 Black, Zum SD-12 Burly Elm Several B-Bender Tele's and a lot of other gear I can't play.

I spent half my money on gambling, alcohol and wild women. The other half I wasted. W.C. Fields

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

I don't use the treble bleed deal, as I always have the volume pot turned up all the way. I can vary my volume with my right hand,,, I'm a bare fingers player. I did put the "Gatton" 1 meg tone pot mod into one of my Teles. If you're pushing the amp pretty hard, it will work as a way.

Walter Bowden · From: Wilmington, North Carolina, USA

Hey fellas. I really appreciate the quick responses and yes, I may be trying to make it harder than it is. It sure isn't the first time I've done this.
I did lift the front pup cover and grounded it and I think the diagrams and advice will see me through this mod.
I appreciate the great resources available on SGF and will update you. Best wishes, Walter
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Emmons S10, p/p, Nashville 112, Zion 50 tele style guitar, Gibson LP Classic w/Vox AC30, Fender Deluxe De Ville and a Rawdon-Hall classical

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

8The fundamental problem is that Seymour Duncan and Stew-Mac use a drawing that is WRONG - looking down from on top, the left side has a lug that is higher. And the real, actual switches have the higher lug on the right side. And Premier Guitar, Stew-Mac and a lot of other people persist in posting the wrong diagram. BUT: the relative position of the wires is correct, so if you can't find the REAL Fender drawing - just take the Duncan one and mentally twist it so that the higher pole is on the right. The ORDER of the wiring is correct.

Walter Bowden · From: Wilmington, North Carolina, USA

SUCCESS! I appreciate all the good advice from you guys, especially Dave. I did just as the wiring diagram indicated after spending some time to undo what I had already done, the guitar works and sounds great.

I did have to solder a short jumper from the neck pup ground wire so it would reach the switch and then throw the switch back and forth a bunch of times to work in the contact cleaner.

Now my Zion 50 has the "Fat Tone" along with traditional Tele pup selection. I would definitely recommend this mod for all Tele players looking for the "Fat Tone". I am grateful for the SGF members helping me out. Best wishes fellas, Walter
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Emmons S10, p/p, Nashville 112, Zion 50 tele style guitar, Gibson LP Classic w/Vox AC30, Fender Deluxe De Ville and a Rawdon-Hall classical

Jim Kennedy · From: Brentwood California, USA

I installed this mod about 5 years ago. If I remember correctly some refer to this as the "Merle mod." Apparently Mr.Haggard uses this mod. It definitely gives a darker tone with more punch. Putting the pickups in series also seems to have some noise cancellation effect. It seems to quiet down interference from fluorescent's and such. Helpful in club's with lot's of interference.

It helps in covering a couple of Santana songs my band does. a little grit, a little compression, some careful eq and it works good enough. To me it beats changing guitars, IMHO.
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ShoBud Pro 1, 75 Tele, 85 Yamaha SA 2000, Fender Cybertwin,

Bill A. Moore · From: Silver City, New Mexico, USA

I too finished this mod to my "Tele" this weekend. I was also replacing the pickups with some "Texas Special" that I traded for, and replacing the pots with CTS.
Like Walter, and Jim said, it is definately worth the effort!

Walter Bowden · From: Wilmington, North Carolina, USA

Hi Jim. When the pups are wired in series it is a humbucking setup and should offer better noise rejection from neons, flurocents and other hum sources. I like the tone I can get now.
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Emmons S10, p/p, Nashville 112, Zion 50 tele style guitar, Gibson LP Classic w/Vox AC30, Fender Deluxe De Ville and a Rawdon-Hall classical

Darvin Willhoite · From: Roxton, Tx. USA

I have a Tele I built with the 4 way switch for the two normal pickups, as well as a Strat pickup in the middle on a separate, three way mini switch. I can use the center pickup with any of the 4 way switch settings, or use it alone. There is a wide array of sounds with this setup.
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Darvin Willhoite
MSA Millennium, Legend, and Studio Pro, Reese's restored Universal Direction guitar, a restored MSA Classic SS, several amps, new and old, and a Kemper Powerhead that I am really liking. Also a Zum D10, a Mullen RP, and a restored Rose S10, named the "Blue Bird". Also, I have acquired and restored the plexiglass D10 MSA Classic that was built as a demo in the early '70s. I also have a '74 lacquer P/P, with wood necks, and a showroom condition Sho-Bud Super Pro.

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