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Topic: Dumb question from a newbie |
Gerald Turnbow
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 11 Jan 2014 9:23 pm |
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Hi folks - I just joined this forum and have a really basic question.
After being clean (band free) for over two years, I've fallen off the wagon and joined a group that plays the country-rock music that developed during the 60's and 70's, with groups like The Byrds, Poco, The Eagles, CSNY, Jackson Browne, etc. I'm the utility player covering fiddle, guitar, mandolin, banjo, and currently dobro on one tune. I'm no Jerry Douglas, but I learned to pick out the needed parts to a Poco Song we do ("Rose of Cimarron"), and I played lap steel on a recording session for a friend for a Hawaiian style number on a borrowed lap steel using a C6 tuning.
Anyway, I'm going to be trying to cover lap steel parts on tunes such as "Running On Empty" and "These Days" from Jackson Brown, as well as some other slide parts from some of the southern rock bands such as the outro to "Ramblin Man" by the Allman Brothers.
Is it possible and/or practical to use a pedal steel for the lap steel parts? I think David Lindley used two or three lap steels in various tunings for a lot of these numbers. Or would I not be able to get the same sounds from the pedal steel?. I understand the tunings would be different, but with the additional strings and possibly two necks, would it be possible to replicate the style of the lap steel using a pedal steel?
I apologize for the length of this post. I'm trying to determine what the best approach will be to minimize the number of instruments I need to cover these parts, particulary since I currently have more guitars, fiddles, etc. in the house now than I have the time or talent to play.
Any and all help and advice would be most appreciated!
Thanks.
- Jerry Turnbow |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 11 Jan 2014 9:56 pm
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Lap steels sound different than pedalsteels. Playing the pedalsteel is a particular thing. I wouldn't bother with all the trouble involved in dealing with a pedalsteel to cover a few lap steel parts. Plus whatever lap steel tuning you are comfortable with will most likely work fine.
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Bob |
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Jim Williams
From:
Meridian, Mississippi, USA - Home of Peavey!
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Posted 11 Jan 2014 11:01 pm
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Speaking newbie to newbie, and as someone trying to learn both lap and pedal, if I didn't specifically want the pedal sound, I would stick with the lap. Pedal steel takes a large amount of practice, I would say daily if you want to really get good at it. I can lay my lap steel down for a few days and catch back up on it pretty quickly. I cant do that on the pedal...one day missed and I feel like I've slid down a hill backwards with it.A D8 console would be nice if you want another tuning with C6th. Personally if I was only allowed to have one tuning on a lap steel it would be C6th.
This would do nicely:
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=258332
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GFI SM10 3/4, 1937 Gibson EH-150, 2 - Rondo SX Lap Steels and a Guyatone 6 String C6. Peavey 400 and a Roland 40 Amps. Behringer Reverb Pedal. |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 11 Jan 2014 11:22 pm
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david lindley did most things like running on empty on a six string lap tuned to open D...or maybe E. the stuff is pretty easy. what made it sound so good was david's ability to sound good.
to answer your question though, yes. with a decent overdrive pedal you can pretty easily play the same stuff by finding the basic notes on the pedal steel.
you may have to leave a low note of a power chord out unless you can find it somewhere.
everyone is going to say here, 'whaaa whaaa whaaa..gotta have this or this'...no you don't. most of it is distorted single string stuff. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 12 Jan 2014 5:12 am
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I agree with Chris. Lindley has never been about licks, but TONE. The only way I'd want a pedal steel for covering Lindley or Allman parts is if I already WANTED a pedal steel and this would make an excuse to take on one of the steepest learning curves and highest entry costs in the field of music.
Given that I haven't heard much from David with multiple string work, I'd guess he has multiple laps because different tunings sound a bit different (because an E note from a .017 at the fifth fret will sound different from a .020 at the tenth or a .014 at the second), and because different tunings will foster different lines of thinking. Or because he has GAS and each of the guitars is, in his opinion that week, too cool to leave at home.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Gerald Turnbow
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 12 Jan 2014 1:15 pm
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| Jim Williams wrote: |
Speaking newbie to newbie, and as someone trying to learn both lap and pedal, if I didn't specifically want the pedal sound, I would stick with the lap. Pedal steel takes a large amount of practice, I would say daily if you want to really get good at it. I can lay my lap steel down for a few days and catch back up on it pretty quickly. I cant do that on the pedal...one day missed and I feel like I've slid down a hill backwards with it.A D8 console would be nice if you want another tuning with C6th. Personally if I was only allowed to have one tuning on a lap steel it would be C6th.
This would do nicely:
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=258332 |
Thanks, Jim, for your advice. I actually was looking at the guitar you pointed out here on this site before I joined the group and posted.
I've got a friend who has a pedal steel that's going to let me play with it a bit and get a feel for if I'm kidding myself about how quickly I could get up to speed on some basics.
Take care! |
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Gerald Turnbow
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 12 Jan 2014 1:22 pm
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| Lane Gray wrote: |
I agree with Chris. Lindley has never been about licks, but TONE. The only way I'd want a pedal steel for covering Lindley or Allman parts is if I already WANTED a pedal steel and this would make an excuse to take on one of the steepest learning curves and highest entry costs in the field of music.
Given that I haven't heard much from David with multiple string work, I'd guess he has multiple laps because different tunings sound a bit different (because an E note from a .017 at the fifth fret will sound different from a .020 at the tenth or a .014 at the second), and because different tunings will foster different lines of thinking. Or because he has GAS and each of the guitars is, in his opinion that week, too cool to leave at home. |
Thanks, Lane and Chris!
Lane, you hit the nail on the head. I've wanted to learn pedal steel for a long time, and was looking at this as justification for getting one, using it short term to cover the single-note lap steel parts while figuring out if I could operate the other whistles and bells.
Quick question - are you Tom Gray's son? If so, we met some years ago at a bluegrass festival at the Henry VIII hotel in St. Louis. If I recall correctly, you and your wife were passing through, and you jammed with us on an 8-string dobro you got from Mike Auldridge. |
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Gerald Turnbow
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 12 Jan 2014 1:28 pm
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Good stuff, Dave - Thanks! |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 12 Jan 2014 5:41 pm
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| Gerald Turnbow wrote: |
| Lane Gray wrote: |
I agree with Chris. Lindley has never been about licks, but TONE. The only way I'd want a pedal steel for covering Lindley or Allman parts is if I already WANTED a pedal steel and this would make an excuse to take on one of the steepest learning curves and highest entry costs in the field of music.
Given that I haven't heard much from David with multiple string work, I'd guess he has multiple laps because different tunings sound a bit different (because an E note from a .017 at the fifth fret will sound different from a .020 at the tenth or a .014 at the second), and because different tunings will foster different lines of thinking. Or because he has GAS and each of the guitars is, in his opinion that week, too cool to leave at home. |
Thanks, Lane and Chris!
Lane, you hit the nail on the head. I've wanted to learn pedal steel for a long time, and was looking at this as justification for getting one, using it short term to cover the single-note lap steel parts while figuring out if I could operate the other whistles and bells.
Quick question - are you Tom Gray's son? If so, we met some years ago at a bluegrass festival at the Henry VIII hotel in St. Louis. If I recall correctly, you and your wife were passing through, and you jammed with us on an 8-string dobro you got from Mike Auldridge. |
That's me. Yes, this would make an excuse to get a pedal steel if you wanted one. I had a ball there, although we weren't passing through, but made the trip from KC to go there. I love that Dobro.
Having pedals can change your thinking once you're used to them, it's like the notes are still there, but you forget to think of them.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Ron Funk
From:
Ballwin, Missouri
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Posted 13 Jan 2014 10:01 am
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| Jerry - check your email. |
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Jamie Mitchell
From:
Nashville, TN
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Posted 6 Apr 2014 8:47 am
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| chris ivey wrote: |
| david lindley did most things like running on empty on a six string lap tuned to open D...or maybe E. |
Hey Chris,
I don't think Lindley ever was that low on electric, at least on the hits. I believe the most common tuning was open F. Running on Empty was open A, as in open E moved up a fourth. Top string (.09 I think) was tuned up to an A. Goddamn...
The string-through lap steel pups do sound quite a bit different than pedal steel to me. That combined with the amp blowing up thing would be another difference re lap/pedal.
If anyone knows a track with Lindley in D, let I know, may have missed it!
j |
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Bill Davison
From:
Just far enough away from Seattle, WA, USA
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Posted 7 Apr 2014 9:42 am
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| Jim Williams wrote: |
Personally if I was only allowed to have one tuning on a lap steel it would be C6th.
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I'm a newbie to the PSG but played the 6 string lap for a long time. I learned to play the lap tuned to E7th and when I got the PSG it was a fairly easy transition because 6 of the 10 strings on the PSG are tuned to the E7th so I was able to start playing songs right away. Now don't get me wrong, there are a lot of other things with the PSG that is causing me problems like the other 4 strings, pedals, knee leavers etc. I am really enjoying the learning experience though. |
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Ken Pippus
From:
Langford, BC, Canada
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Posted 7 Apr 2014 10:14 am
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Mark Van Allen's two courses on rock'n'roll pedal steel devote a big chunk of time to playing "lap" style on pedal steel, including the solo from "Running on Empty." I think that would be a great headstart towards what I think you want to do.
http://www.markvanallen.com/store_books.html
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 8 Apr 2014 10:05 am
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If you don't push the pedals there's no difference between a lap steel and a pedal steel other than tone, and the tone comes from the pickup, the amplifier, the effects units, and the wrist action. Presumably those who can tell the difference between a lap steel and a pedal steel played without pedals can also hear a difference between a lap steel and a console steel, or between a solid console steel and a hollow console steel. Where would you put the Fender Stringmaster then? It's a lap steel which you can fit legs on or play across the lap. In fact you can fit legs onto most lap steels.
My advice is get yourself a pedal steel with two necks. You can play anything on that that you could on a lap steel, but it doesn't work the other way round. |
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