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Topic: Square neck: Gretsch vs. Wechter Scheerhorn |
Rex Krueger
From:
California, USA
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Posted 23 Mar 2014 3:29 pm |
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I'm about ready to buy my first resonator, a square neck. I already play lap steel and I want to learn dobro. I'll have about $500 to spend, but no more.
One of the local shops stocks the Gretchs: the Boxcar ($350) and the Bobtail ($500), both new. I also found a guy on Craigslist with a Wechter Scheerhorn. I don't have the model number, but it's mahogany with f-holes and it's NOT an Ickes model. I know there are other options, but I'd like to stick to ones I can actually PLAY before I buy.
It seems like a Wechter for the same price as a new Gretsch is a slam-dunk, but I've heard mixed reviews of the Wechter (frugalhorn) and most people seem to love those Gretchs as first guitars.
Obviously, the Wechter will retain much more resale value, but many players seem luke-warm on the Wechter. So, I leave it to you, the experts. All things being equal, which way should I go with my 500 bones? |
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Ken Pippus
From:
Langford, BC, Canada
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Posted 23 Mar 2014 3:49 pm
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| The Wechter is generally a better built, better sounding guitar, with better resale value. The $500 Gretsch gets serious consideration if you're planning on playing amplified a lot of the time, because it comes with the Fishman Nashville pickup preinstalled, and with the addition of the Jerry Douglas Aura pedal, you're ready to go out and compete with the local heavy metal band. |
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Rick Barnhart
From:
Arizona, USA
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Posted 23 Mar 2014 4:39 pm
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_________________
Clinesmith consoles D-8/6 5 pedal, D-8 3 pedal & A25 Frypan, Pettingill Teardrop, & P8 Deluxe.
Last edited by Rick Barnhart on 26 Mar 2014 5:16 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Rex Krueger
From:
California, USA
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Posted 23 Mar 2014 5:27 pm
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Gents:
Those are both valuable replies. Thanks for your thoughts. I'd be happy to hear from anyone else on this topic as well.
I should mention that the seller would throw in a Fishman Nashville bridge pickup for another 100, but I don't know if I can swing that.
More food for thought, here's the owner holding the Wechter:
http://resophonicrebop.wix.com/reso-rebop
Still mulling this over... |
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Rick Barnhart
From:
Arizona, USA
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Posted 23 Mar 2014 5:59 pm
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_________________
Clinesmith consoles D-8/6 5 pedal, D-8 3 pedal & A25 Frypan, Pettingill Teardrop, & P8 Deluxe.
Last edited by Rick Barnhart on 26 Mar 2014 5:18 am; edited 5 times in total |
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Paul DiMaggio
From:
Fort Nelson, British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 24 Mar 2014 3:40 am
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| Rick; do you think a cone upgrade would help the Gretsch acoustically? I thought I read they had an Eastern European cone as opposed to a Beard or National etc. |
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Rick Barnhart
From:
Arizona, USA
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Posted 24 Mar 2014 5:18 am
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_________________
Clinesmith consoles D-8/6 5 pedal, D-8 3 pedal & A25 Frypan, Pettingill Teardrop, & P8 Deluxe.
Last edited by Rick Barnhart on 26 Mar 2014 9:28 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Brad Bechtel
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 24 Mar 2014 6:31 am
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Rick,
The model that Joe Adams is holding is a 6510-F. I own one myself and think it's a great guitar, a much better value for the price than the Gretsch guitars. If you have a chance to play the Gretsch before playing the Wechter, I think you'll agree.
I don't remember mixed reviews of the Wechter Scheerhorns, unless it's possibly by people who were confused as to what they represent. They're a very nice Asian made / US finished guitar at a good price point. They competed in the market place with the Gold Tone Paul Beard models in my opinion.
_________________
Brad’s Page of Steel
A web site devoted to acoustic & electric lap steel guitars |
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Rick Barnhart
From:
Arizona, USA
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Posted 24 Mar 2014 4:19 pm
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_________________
Clinesmith consoles D-8/6 5 pedal, D-8 3 pedal & A25 Frypan, Pettingill Teardrop, & P8 Deluxe.
Last edited by Rick Barnhart on 26 Mar 2014 9:29 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Rex Krueger
From:
California, USA
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Posted 24 Mar 2014 5:30 pm Mixed reviews
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Like I said, mixed. Not universally positive or negative:
http://www.resohangout.com/archive/18607
I'm certainly leaning towards the wechter. Now I just need to unload my bass. Anybody want an American Standard Jazz bass? |
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Brian McGaughey
From:
Orcas Island, WA USA
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Posted 24 Mar 2014 8:34 pm
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Gretsch sounds better plugged in than unplugged IMO.
W/S sounds good either way.
From my experience, if I was planning on playing unplugged most of the time, I'd do the W/S and never look back. Especially for 5 bills if it sounds OK and doesn't need a setup and comes with a case.
The Gretsch squareneck I played (can't remember which one) didn't sound that great unplugged in my opinion. |
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Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
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Posted 25 Mar 2014 12:45 pm
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There is this tendency on some of the of forums when discussing these designed-in-the-U.S., but built-in-Asia resonator guitars to sort of lump them all in together with each other.
I don't recall the exact retail prices of the non-Ickes model Wechter/Scheerhorn aka frugal'horns anymore since the company is no longer in business and few of them still exist in a new state at guitar shops, but it seems to me they ran depending on the model, at the end, between around $750 to $950. The Rob Ickes model was more, street price in the neighborhood of $1250-$1400+
I have used this analogy before, and it seems appropriate in this thread : If you were shopping for a flattop acoustic, and you enter to a store that was a Yamaha dealer stocking a number of instruments built in their Chinese factory, would you expect the $350 model to be in the same league as the $750+ model? I know I wouldn't. So I'm not real sure why these Asian-built resonators get an apples-to-apples comparison, even though the prices are quite a bit different.
The Gretsch without the pickup is about a $350 guitar, new. I think it might be my favorite one out there in that price range these days since I hate the sound of most of the cheaper Regals I've tried. I've played four or five of the Gretsch's now since they hit the market.
In the years since they first started showing up I have played a bunch of Wechter/Scheerhorns. The Gretsch is not in the same league as the Wechter/Scheerhorn. It shouldn't be if price is any kind of indicator - they sold new for over twice the price of the Gretsch.
Brad Bechtel didn't bring his Wechter/Scheerhorn to our very informal SF Dobro Club meeting a few weeks ago, but one of the guys brought his. Another guy was there who just started on dobro, and he brought a Gretsch. Once again, a respectable starter instrument and it sounds like a dobro. I played the frugal'horn for a bit, and it basically kicks the Gretsch's a$$.
The other thing about the Gretsch is that you can tell with close examination (in person) that the metal parts are just not as good quality as one finds on the Wechter/Scheerhorn.
Get the used frugal'horn for $500. That's the ticket.
The Gretsch for playing plugged in with the Fishman Nashville pickup is a whole other deal. They have done a remarkable job on an inexpensive guitar to correctly mount this often temperamental device. And when you figure that it's only about $150 more than the Gretsch w/o the pickup - if you need to play plugged in - it's a bargain. A Nashville pickup alone, sent to your door, and you have to deal with the installation, goes for over $200 right now.
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Mark |
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Jack Aldrich
From:
Washington, USA
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Posted 26 Mar 2014 12:32 pm
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The main difference between Dobros and other resonator guitars, imho, is that Dobros are plywood, and the others, like the Wechter, are solid wood. My Dobro 8, which I hardly play any more, is that it thins out as I play up the neck, which the solid wood ones don't.
_________________
Jack Aldrich
Carter & ShoBud D10's
D8 & T8 Stringmaster
Rickenbacher B6
3 Resonator guitars
Asher Alan Akaka Special SN 6
Canopus D8 |
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Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
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Posted 26 Mar 2014 12:46 pm
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| Jack Aldrich wrote: |
| The main difference between Dobros and other resonator guitars, imho, is that Dobros are plywood, and the others, like the Wechter, are solid wood. My Dobro 8, which I hardly play any more, is that it thins out as I play up the neck, which the solid wood ones don't. |
Actually Jack, Wechter/Scheerhorns (which were built in China) are not solid wood, they are also ply/laminate. They can be quite loud due to the inherent design by Tim Scheerhorn.
There were some Wechter 'Elite' models built in small numbers several years ago which were designed by Tim Scheerhorn also, and they were in fact solid wood. Those were built at the Wechter shop in the midwest. Though that was a pretty brief program - I'd say plenty of dobro players don't know they even exist.
Now an actual Scheerhorn as built by Tim is many times the cost of a frugal'horn - those are solid wood. As are the new Scheerhorn guitars designed by Tim and being built at National Reso-Phonic in California.
The new Scheerhorns to which I like to refer as Nati-horns range in price from $2600 to $3900.
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Mark |
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Jack Aldrich
From:
Washington, USA
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Posted 26 Mar 2014 4:31 pm
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Good info, Mark. I play koa/Sitka spruce top resos made by Dave Krause here in Seattle. Their innards are solid maple, no plywood. When I let Dan Tyack play my 6, the hair on his arm stood up, and he said that it sounded as full at the 14th fret as at the first. I hardly ever play my Dobro 8 any more. Probably Tim knows about this and is able to compensate for it. btw, instead of screens, Dave cuts dolphins into the top at the same location, and the sides and backs have matched grain. I'll have to post pictures. They run for $2000, which is a steal, imho.
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Jack Aldrich
Carter & ShoBud D10's
D8 & T8 Stringmaster
Rickenbacher B6
3 Resonator guitars
Asher Alan Akaka Special SN 6
Canopus D8 |
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Greg Booth
From:
Anchorage, AK, USA
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Posted 26 Mar 2014 4:46 pm
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| Jack Aldrich wrote: |
| The main difference between Dobros and other resonator guitars, imho, is that Dobros are plywood, and the others, like the Wechter, are solid wood. My Dobro 8, which I hardly play any more, is that it thins out as I play up the neck, which the solid wood ones don't. |
As Mark pointed out, the Wechters are also plywood. Laminate construction doesn't equal poor response or poor tone, most dobro players know this. Mike Auldridge was famous for his smooth and rich tone playing a laminate guitar his entire career; Dobro then Guernsey then the Beard MAS model. The sound I prefer is produced by a solid wood Scheerhorn but I would be very happy to own and play the MAS.
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Greg
Kathy Kallick Band
www.youtube.com/user/aksliderdobro |
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Howard Parker
From:
Maryland
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Steve Lipsey
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 28 Mar 2014 12:48 pm
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By the way....I have a W-S 6524FE, which I love...but even with the maple top it was very mellow when I got it....simply replacing the strings with nickel reso strings brightened it up considerably, and I'm really happy with it now...perhaps the strings were just old and needed replacing anyway, but I think nickel is generally brighter and works well on this reso...
I use either Martin or Dr. Duck nickel strings - the Dr. Ducks are usually available on ebay in quantity at very low prices compared to the website (he even advises you to go to ebay), and they are slightly higher gauge in places, which I like.
_________________
https://www.lostsailorspdx.com
Williams S10s, Milkman Pedal Steel Mini & "The Amp"
Ben Bonham Resos, 1954 Oahu Diana, 1936 Oahu Parlor |
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Ned Pearson
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Posted 31 Mar 2014 10:48 am Change the cone
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I think either of the Resos in question would be fine but I would plan on replacing the cone with a Scheerhorn cone. Both of the instruments in question probably have Continental cones which aren't bad but not great either.
Three years ago I bought a Recording King reso. It too had a Continental cone which I quickly replaced with a Scheerhorn cone from Elderly. You would not believe the difference. I also added a #14 spider and replaced the bridge.
Over the years I have owned many resos including one of Tim's earlier Scheerhorn's, three OMI's, two Tut Taylors, a 34 Regal, and a Deneve, and my current setup sounds real good for the money and has a great tone.
You may not need to replace the spider (I could have kept the spider the RK came with) but replacing the cone with a Scheerhorn, Beard or genuine Quarterman will give you much better tone IMHO. |
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Greg Booth
From:
Anchorage, AK, USA
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Posted 31 Mar 2014 2:40 pm
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I owned a WS Elite, US made, solid wood, and although it recorded well it was not as loud as I wanted until I replaced the heavy import spider with a #14. Those stock heavy import spiders are dogs.
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Greg
Kathy Kallick Band
www.youtube.com/user/aksliderdobro |
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Steve Lipsey
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 1 Apr 2014 11:40 am
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Is there any way to tell by looking at the instrument - without taking it all apart - what kind go spider, or cone, is in it? I think that what they used changed over the years of production, and may have been replaced - how to tell?
_________________
https://www.lostsailorspdx.com
Williams S10s, Milkman Pedal Steel Mini & "The Amp"
Ben Bonham Resos, 1954 Oahu Diana, 1936 Oahu Parlor |
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Howard Parker
From:
Maryland
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Posted 1 Apr 2014 12:05 pm
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Easy to tell on the spiders. The imports are thicker then the #14. Many look almost machined instead of cast.
The cones are a litter tougher to differentiate. The center threaded rivet may be a clue. Any that uses a metric tension screw is certainly an import. If one "knows" cones you can even look at the spinning marks.
fwiw, The threaded rivet on the Quarterman's are stamped with his name. The current Beard cones also have a Beard logo stamped. Older Beard cones were acid etched with the logo. I don't know what Tim Scheerhorn does to mark his cones.
h
_________________
Howard Parker
03\' Carter D-10
70\'s Dekley D-10
52\' Fender Custom
Many guitars by Paul Beard
Listowner Resoguit-L |
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Steve Lipsey
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 1 Apr 2014 12:25 pm
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May be asking too much here, but can you tell anything from this pic? thanks!
(not trying to hijack this thread - this may actually be useful to the OP, plus to everyone else...)
This is a Wechter-Scheerhorn of indeterminate age...I suspect that nothing was changed, but supposedly they switched components at some point...
_________________
https://www.lostsailorspdx.com
Williams S10s, Milkman Pedal Steel Mini & "The Amp"
Ben Bonham Resos, 1954 Oahu Diana, 1936 Oahu Parlor |
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Howard Parker
From:
Maryland
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Posted 1 Apr 2014 12:39 pm
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It appears to not be a #14. Legs are thick and smooth. Still have that Beard Roadie? Compare with that. The Roadie uses a cut down #14.
Cone, not a clue. If original a Continental cone.
h
_________________
Howard Parker
03\' Carter D-10
70\'s Dekley D-10
52\' Fender Custom
Many guitars by Paul Beard
Listowner Resoguit-L |
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Howard Parker
From:
Maryland
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Posted 1 Apr 2014 1:25 pm
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This might help.
h
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