| Author |
Topic: Won't Lower Enough G#-F# |
Jim Eller
From:
Kodak, TN (Michigan transplant)
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Posted 18 Mar 2014 5:46 pm |
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Just added a rod to the lever that raises my 1st and 2nd but it will only lower the 6th string to a low G.
I have the rod in the bell crank for the most pull(bottom) but still not enough. If I tighten the mylon nut enough to get it to go, it won't return all the way.
Where am I going wrong?
Please use the KISS theory. This is all Greek to me.
Thanks. |
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John Swain
From:
Winchester, Va
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Posted 18 Mar 2014 5:49 pm
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| What string are you using,wound,unwound? |
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Jim Eller
From:
Kodak, TN (Michigan transplant)
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Posted 18 Mar 2014 5:51 pm
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| Plain(unwound) |
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Clyde Lane
From:
Glasgow, Kentucky, USA
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Posted 18 Mar 2014 6:25 pm
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You need to increase the travel on the lever. Screw the stop in. Do you have the pull rod in the hole on the bell crank the farthest away from the shaft?
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Clyde Lane |
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 18 Mar 2014 8:45 pm
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When you activate your lever, watch underneath at the changer fingers and see if your raise finger starts moving alongside the lower finger at a certain point in the travel. If this happens, the raise finger is nullifying any further lowering, and is a setup issue.
If so, if memory serves (and it doesn't always) I believe you have to reduce the lowering spring tension. |
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Jim Palenscar
From:
Oceanside, Calif, USA
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Posted 18 Mar 2014 9:06 pm
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| If you have a split screw or split rod be sure that it is backed off (been there- done that too many times). Also try the rod in a different changer hole. |
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Jim Eller
From:
Kodak, TN (Michigan transplant)
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Posted 19 Mar 2014 4:38 am
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Clyde - Rod is in the finger furthest from the cross shaft.
Jim - the changer has three holes. I have tried two of them so far.
Tom - You may be on to something. I just looked at it again and the lever acts like a second string double pull. I can feel a stop and then another. Upon looking at the fingers, I can see the lower start and then the raise moves a little. Now what?
Thanks,
JimE |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 19 Mar 2014 7:42 am
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| Jim Eller wrote: |
| Upon looking at the fingers, I can see the lower start and then the raise moves a little. Now what? |
A heavier guage string or a lighter return spring should correct the problem.  |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 19 Mar 2014 8:21 am
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| Donny Hinson wrote: |
| Jim Eller wrote: |
| Upon looking at the fingers, I can see the lower start and then the raise moves a little. Now what? |
A heavier guage string or a lighter return spring should correct the problem. |
Donny is right.. You didn't mention guitar brand.. If it has adjustment screws for the row of springs on the bottom of the changer, back it off until the finger comes out enough to comfortably hit the F# without having the raise finger start to engage.. If it doesn't have adjustable springs, you need to determine the gauge of the G# string, and go a bit heavier... If neither of those things work, Donny is right, you may need to change springs.. In all my years of playing steel, and working on many different brands, I have never seen any changer on any pedal steel that couldn't make the pull you want with extreme ease, and a ton of room to spare.. you may have too light a string on that guitar, or way too much pressure on the lower return spring... bob
_________________
I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time......
Last edited by Bob Carlucci on 19 Mar 2014 8:22 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Leo Melanson
From:
Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 19 Mar 2014 8:22 am Hex Nut?
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Do you have a row of Hex nut tuners above the Nylon tuners on your guitar?
If so, check to see if the hex nut on String 6 is screwed in for split tuning on this string, in effect preventing the travel of the raise any further.
_________________
Boston area country musician
Mullen G2 player |
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Jim Eller
From:
Kodak, TN (Michigan transplant)
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Posted 19 Mar 2014 9:00 am
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'93 ZumSteel
.022 gauge
Hope this helps.
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 19 Mar 2014 9:04 am
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| Jim Eller wrote: |
'93 ZumSteel
.022 gauge
Hope this helps.
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Jim... your return spring is cranked to the max.. Back it off, and watch what happens.. Magic!.. Thats the problem, back the spring off until you reach the F# comfortably, , leave some room for future adjustments with your nylon hex nut... bob
_________________
I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time...... |
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Jerry Jones
From:
Franklin, Tenn.
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Posted 19 Mar 2014 9:13 am
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| Jim Palenscar wrote: |
| If you have a split screw or split rod be sure that it is backed off |
I too have been there a few times myself. I assume you backed out any 6th string "split screw" behind the changer. Do you also have a 4th pedal? Got an image of the changer end (external view) of your guitar?
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Jerry Jones |
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Jim Palenscar
From:
Oceanside, Calif, USA
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Posted 19 Mar 2014 9:14 am
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| Good eye Bob! |
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Tony Glassman
From:
The Great Northwest
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Posted 19 Mar 2014 10:55 am
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To summarize (and I've fixed this problem on several of my Zums). Start w/ step # 1 and work down the list as needed.
1] change string type
2] back the spit-tune screw out to eliminate it as the culprit (screws on rear of neck)
3] loosen the lower return spring (end plate screws)
4] slacken or remove the raise helper spring (nylon ribbed fasteners on floor of guitar)
5] change lower rod leverage holes at the changer (clsoer to axle) or bell crank (farther) from axle + lengthen the lever throw travel screw as necessary |
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Jim Eller
From:
Kodak, TN (Michigan transplant)
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Posted 19 Mar 2014 12:54 pm
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When you guys are talking about backing of the spring, are we talking the one at the bottom of the end plate or the one with the little nylon loop thingy at the underbody of the guitar and sets in a set of fingers??
Dumb question #2: When you say, " back the spit-tune screw out to eliminate it as the culprit" Are these above the endplate. Only have four of them? What kind of trouble am I getting into by doing this?
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 19 Mar 2014 1:18 pm
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Jim--
--#1 is the split tuning screw that you need to make sure is backed off.
--#2 is the return spring adjuster that you need to turn counter clockwise to relax the spring tension.
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Jim Eller
From:
Kodak, TN (Michigan transplant)
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Posted 19 Mar 2014 2:09 pm
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Now I like that explanation Jon. It's one even I can understand.
How do you draw on those pictures?
Should I be counting the turns so I can put it back where it came from? Everything else works fine and I don't want to screw it up.
I'm sure by now folks are sayin', "He shouldn't be messin' with this thing."
Thanks,
JimE |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 19 Mar 2014 2:24 pm
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I dunno--I just take my Sharpie and start drawing on the monitor and there ya go.
The split tuning screw is not a thing to count turns on. It's a fine tuning procedure that won't be set right by 'number of turns'.
And the spring tension is not a fine tuned adjustment. I'd give it a good number of turns. Right now it is pretty much tightened as far as it will go. Let it out. The only thing you don't want to do is unscrew it so much that the screw comes out of the spring.
If you get your full step lower (as I bet you will), then your tuning procedure will be to get your lower in the ballpark of F#. Then tune your G (B pedal + lever) at the nylon tuner at the changer. Then tune the F# (lever alone) with the split tuning screw. |
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Jerry Jones
From:
Franklin, Tenn.
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Posted 19 Mar 2014 2:41 pm
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Looks like you have 2 lowering rods on string 6…. what do they do?
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Jerry Jones |
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Jim Eller
From:
Kodak, TN (Michigan transplant)
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Posted 19 Mar 2014 8:40 pm
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Jerry,
The second rod is anchored to the metal cross brace in the middle of the guitar and for some reason goes to the bottom hole on the changer.
I called Bruce about it and he said that was the way he built them. He gave me a reason but I do not recall what it was.
JimE |
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Jerry Jones
From:
Franklin, Tenn.
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Posted 19 Mar 2014 8:56 pm
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OK, a return compensator used on strings that are both raised and lowered to overcome hysteresis. String 4 would be the first choice location…. on string 6, you're usually on and off pedal 2 often enough to overcome any hysteresis.
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Jerry Jones |
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Frank Montmarquet
From:
The North Coast, New York, USA
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Posted 20 Mar 2014 8:38 am
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| Jim Eller wrote: |
How do you draw on those pictures?
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Use the Firefox browser, get the Nimbus screen shot add-on. |
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Jim Eller
From:
Kodak, TN (Michigan transplant)
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Posted 20 Mar 2014 12:04 pm
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Jerry - Don't know about the 4 vs 6 thing. That's were Builder Bruce said he put it. All I know is, it is a rod anchored to the center brace, runs through the changer and has a nylon nut on it. Don't know if the nut should be tight or loose to the changer.
Frank - Thanks for the info.
Thank You
JimE |
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Jim Palenscar
From:
Oceanside, Calif, USA
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Posted 20 Mar 2014 12:27 pm
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| The nut should start by being a titch loose and should be tightened up very slowly after the string has been lowered and released to bring it back to perfect pitch as it considered to be a lower compensator due to the phenomenon known of as "hysteresis". |
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