Splitting 3rd stg. D/C# on C6?

Rick Schmidt · From: Prescott AZ, USA

Does anybody do this? To me, it seems like somewhat of a good idea for us guys who still like the high G. Instead of dedicating a lever for string 3 raise C to C#, is there a reason not to tune it all the way up to to D and split it with the C to B KL?

Ricky Davis · From: Bertram, Texas USA

Yep I have a tunable split for that C to D using the C to B lower lever...>and a tunable split for my A to B and using my A to Ab lower lever......and find them VERY useful.> Oh and Rick; I emailed you back and it timed out...>so I sent it again...(is your mailbox full pal??..ha)
Ricky

Jeff Lampert · From: queens, new york city

Rick, I assume you are referring to splitting the 3rd string D note from pedal 7 with the C->B lower. Like Ricky, I also use it. I'm not sure what you are getting at about liking the high G. If you are referring to the "string one G or D" debate that says you can have a high D note and go to the third fret for the C6 chord you're missing, string 4 being raised ruins that. FWIW, my most common use of the C# note using the split is with the pedal 7,8 combo which allows me a leading/melody C# note over an A9 chord. .. Jeff

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

Ricky, I think you have this on the Fulawka, but could you show me a pic that shows how the extra rod would work on a Sho-Bud.
I think that's how it's done. But can't quite get my head around it. Another pull the opposite direction?

When I hit B lever with, P4 it just goes all pear shaped. But I would like this change and I have rods now.

I have RKR for C#s 3+7 and use it all the time. And the G to F# on P8 which I like a lot with it, or Eb lever. I am trying the lower E to F at the moment, it's interesting, but maybe I like the lower Eb more. Time will tell.

PS Jeff the piano players finally back!

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 09 November 2003 at 05:36 AM.]

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

I assume you mean raise only the 3rd string from C to a D then split it with the C to B lever. Rather than splitting the C to B lever with pedal 7. Further I assume you are doing this so you can have a D note without sacrificing the high G note.

Based on these 2 assumptions, I would say it is not a good idea for the following reasons:

The main reason for having the D note on the 1st string is for fast single notes; filling that gap between the C and E notes within the scale; alleviating the need to move the bar 2 frets; either left or right. Of course there are other good reasons for having the D note also, such as with pedals 5 or 6.

So raising the 3rd string to a D would destroy having all those scale notes IN the tuning. This is the same reason that Buddy gave us our 2nd string on E9th, EVEN though we already lowered the 4th string to the same note. Fast staccato scale notes are extremely difficult to pull off by pulling strings.

The second reason is; it would require yet another pedal (or knee lever), to pull the 3rd string to a D.

Finally, most who use the C to C# pull also pull the 7th string to a C# with it. This is a good change because it works great with pedal 5. This would be messed up doing it as you suggest.

carl

Rick Schmidt · From: Prescott AZ, USA

Yes I am raising just the string #3 C to D on my LKV and splitting it with RKL C to B. (as Carl said)
I've only been doing it about a week & for my purposes I havnt experienced any "cons" as of yet. In fact I'm really getting excited about it!

In responce to Carl's post, I have some thoughts on how it relates to me....

First of all, I'm still playing catch up as far as the 1rst stg. D goes. My main guitar (for 30 years) is a D10 with the G on top. I also have a D12(my experimental axe) that has both the G & D on it. For me, most fast staccato playing still has more to do with finding places on the neck where I can utilize two strings to find fast string to string close intervals. I don't use pedals much for single line playing, although I do use the C to B lever for whole step triplets alot between the 4rth & 3rd string. With this new change, I have another place to do that. As much as I try to use the D on my double 12, I'm still finding those lines in other places. I know that's just me. So much of what I think is my chord melody style is based around various combinations using the high G string, so I'm trying to think of some adaptation for the day when I can afford a new state of the art steel. This is NOT to say that Buddy, Paul, Doug, & Tommy(et all with the high D) don't knock me out!

Also I don't raise string 7 up to C# on that lever, so this split wont affect anything there. Of course in the back of my mind I'm thinking sacrilegeous thoughts about raising stg 7 to D on that KL also......

[This message was edited by Rick Schmidt on 09 November 2003 at 09:16 AM.]

Ricky Davis · From: Bertram, Texas USA

David I don't have a picture sorry..and the picture I could take; you'd never see it as it's too close in there..ha.
But all you need is another rod hooked to the very bottom of the puller(bell crank) that lowers the C to B and into a raise hole.
So you tune your C to D on the regular raise nylon tuner; than engage the knee lever and tune on the regular lower nylon tuner> Now let off the pedal....and engage the lower from C to B and tune it on that new raise rod....cause it will now be lowering too far..so that will bring it up..and therefore split the note..yee haa.
My LKL on the C6 side lowers A to AB and my RKL lowers C to B and they are both split tuned and I use them together in conjuction with the 7th pedal that raises Both C and A a whole tone...>it's a beautiful sound/move Man.
This is my Copedent> http://users.interlinks.net/rebel/steel/rickydfulawkacopedent.html but at the bottom of the C6th chart it should say "tunable splits on 2;3 and 4th strings.
Ricky

[This message was edited by Ricky Davis on 09 November 2003 at 10:59 AM.]

Bob Strum · From: Anniston Alabama

Since there is no way I can do the fast riffs, I have a "half stop" on a pedal that raises C to C# then on to D. It works well with pedal 6 for some big chords. Example on www.bobstrum.com

Al Marcus · From: Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)

Ricky-I like your C6 pull from G to F and E to D. gives a full Fmaj6 and Fmajor 7th if you don't pull the E to D, gets a nice dissonant sound. A good C6 setup.

I use these two pulls on separate knee levers also on my "Lean and Mean E6 tuning".

Lower 5th a whole tone and lower 3rd a whole tone. Gives me an A6. For one thing. Also used many other ways with P5 and P6...al

.

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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

Ricky Davis · From: Bertram, Texas USA

Thanks Al; I knew you'd like it..ha.
Ricky

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

Ricky it is very interesting. Was this what you played at Scotty's I think so.

The F's seem very interesting.

I would miss the C#'s on RKR too much though.

I kept the 1st F# on P8 ala Buddy's D#.
I tried to bar in the G# with the Bb's, but prefer the G "nature".
Mebe I just play more minor blues ish?

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