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Topic: I got to try the Milkman Hybrid amp!! |
Jonathan Lam
From:
Brooklyn, NY
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Posted 9 Mar 2014 9:03 am |
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Got to hang out with Tim and play a bunch of milkmen, but more importantly got to peel the paint off the wall with his milkman hybrid amp, tentatively called the Half and half. We played it through a 15" telonics speaker and it had beautiful definition, and bass tightness but when really goosing the volume pedal it would let you know that there is a full tube preamp working there.
It sounds pretty incredible and left our ears ringing. and we didnt even get it to 10. Out of control loud.
It sounded incredible with tims 12 str emmons....
My 20w milkman, while plenty loud for most all applications, playing pedal steel in a loud bar without being mic'ed is not loud enough. However, that amp for me shines in the studio. I think this will be a perfect brother to the creamer...
HURRY UP AND FINISH THE AMP.
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Http://www.jonnylam.com
http://www.honeyfingersmusic.com
https://www.facebook.com/honeyfingersmusic |
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Tim Marcus
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 9 Mar 2014 11:08 am
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my ears are still ringing
no complaints from the neighbors though!
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Milkmansound.com |
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Mark Fowler
From:
Minnesota, USA
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Posted 9 Mar 2014 4:19 pm
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You can always lend the amp to the bass player in the band until you need it back  |
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Dustin Rigsby
From:
Parts Unknown, Ohio
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Posted 9 Mar 2014 5:30 pm
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Thank you Tim, I'm saving my money for one as we speak. Possibly the best idea for a pedal steel amp to come along in quite a while. Does the tube pre-amp take to effects very well ?
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D.S. Rigsby |
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Tim Marcus
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 9 Mar 2014 6:19 pm
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yes it does - either with pedals into the front, or I can add in a tube buffered effect loop instead of the onboard reverb for rack or line level effects.
I am really excited that the response to this amp model has been so positive. For steel players, who want a lot of wattage but do not want to use either two tube amps or one that weighs as much as a Buick, this is going to be a really good piece of kit.
I am currently testing the amp with a different type of power supply. I will have some more updates soon, and maybe even some pictures and sound clips.
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Milkmansound.com |
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Dustin Rigsby
From:
Parts Unknown, Ohio
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Posted 9 Mar 2014 7:16 pm On a related note...
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Tim, why is it that hybrid amps seem to have a bad rap ? I have experience with two,namely the Marshall Artist 3203 and the MusicMan 65 non reverb. I love them both for different reasons. The Marshall had great tone, but, was panned by a lot of players. The Music Man gets panned a lot for steel,but it's a real workhorse of an amp.
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D.S. Rigsby |
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Tim Marcus
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 9 Mar 2014 7:32 pm
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in my opinion its because they were never built properly. Any time a large amplifier company comes out with a hybrid, its usually a 99.99% solid state amplifier with a tube added in. The gain usually comes from an opamp or transistor, and then they run it though a tube for "warmth" which usually translates as distortion.
The Milkman hybrid is built completely the other way around. Its 99% a tube amp - high voltage, hand wired, Fender inspired layout and design - but instead of using tubes for the power supply, its got a tiny little class D amplifier after the preamp which takes the 1 volt preamp output and scales it up to 250W.
Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the music man amps had a solid state preamp with a tube output.
By hand wiring, using hand selected components as well as vintage and vintage inspired parts I get a much more natural tube preamp just like my other tube amps have. Its identical, and built identical for long term life and service life. The class D portion is modular - so just like swapping a power tube, if it goes south, it can easily be replaced without soldering and off you go.
If you look at the left side of the amp in this photo, you will see what I mean. Left half - hand wired tube preamp. Right half, class D power amp and power supply. Thus the Half and Half
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Milkmansound.com |
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Ian Sutton
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 10 Mar 2014 3:27 pm
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Lookin' good, Tim.
Two Buicks indeed!
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Some gear. |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 10 Mar 2014 3:39 pm
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Correct about the ss pre, tube power amp of the Musicman.
What's the speaker impedance story with this Class D? Tight requirements or forgiving of mismatches (or switchable)? |
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Douglas Schuch
From:
Valencia, Philippines
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Posted 10 Mar 2014 4:35 pm
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OK, Tim, got to ask. First, the background: about 9 months ago Dennis Detweiler asked here on the forum:
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| Is there any tone warmth derived from power tubes? Or, is it all preamp? |
Your reply was:
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| It's all power amp - that's the magic |
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=248898&highlight=tube+preamp
I'm not trying to be a troll or defecatory outlet, just wondering if you have changed your opinion, or if the tube preamp section provides other benefits if the tube warmth is all from the power stage? I know it's hard to explain tone in words, but please try to tell us how the tone of this amp compares to your all-tube amps, and how it differs from an all SS amp.
I do not live anywhere near the steel shows, so don't get to hear and test the various bits of gear, so I depend a lot on the forum for info and ideas.
One other question - what are your thoughts on using a non-tube buffer, active or passive pedal, etc before the tube pre-amp (for either the Half and Half, or your all-tube amps)?
Thanks,
Doug
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Bringing steel guitar to the bukid of Negros Oriental! |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 10 Mar 2014 5:28 pm
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'peel the paint off the wall'.
'my ears are still ringing'
...beautiful... |
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Tim Marcus
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 10 Mar 2014 5:40 pm
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Douglas - I stand by that statement to this day. The all tube amps have something that this new hybrid will never have. The tube derived power output is magic.
That said, it's also heavy and expensive. So why not offer an amp model that is a hybrid? For the purists, there's my tube line - for those who wish to be heard on the moon there's the hybrid.
Also, if you read the posts on the forum about amps there seems be a huge divide at whether tube or solid state is best for pedal steel. I've officially thrown a wrench into that argument 
As for buffering, active, etc - I think it's up to taste. I was 100% passive until I tried the Telonics pedal. Now that's my go to. I still love my old L120 though - but I wear through pots a little too quickly to use them in my grab and go rig.
Jon - the hybrid will deliver 125W into 8ohms, or 250W into 4 ohms. Feel free to swap but I think 4 is the way to go.
But remember! The external speaker out does not peel off of the output the same way my tube amps do. There's a second 125 or 250 watts waiting there so that you can have twice the paint peeling off the walls.
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Milkmansound.com |
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Douglas Schuch
From:
Valencia, Philippines
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Posted 10 Mar 2014 8:17 pm
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Tim,
Thanks for the answers.
As for the question on items inline before the pre-amp, I was in particular thinking about the idea that the tubes and pickups work best if they "see" each other directly. If you use a Telonics, I assume you do not worry about that, unless you have a tube buffer in line before the pedal.
And you are saying it will be 2 X 250 watts? That will peel paint of the walls in the next town, I think!
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Bringing steel guitar to the bukid of Negros Oriental! |
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Abe Levy
From:
California, USA
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Posted 10 Mar 2014 8:23 pm
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How does this compare with the Evans hybrid amps?
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Mostly Pre-1970 guitars. |
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Tim Marcus
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 10 Mar 2014 9:30 pm
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I have never tried the Evans so I can't say for sure.
I don't think its hand wired or has tube driven spring reverb like mine. Or the dual 250W output design. Mine will also be available in a small combo.
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Milkmansound.com |
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