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Topic: Playing In Tune - Tips / Tricks / Techniques |
Joey Ace
From:
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 7 Mar 2014 4:43 am |
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There is always a lot of discussion on Tuning, and many paths to enlightenment. However I rarely see the more important topic of Playing In Tune discussed. Hence,this thread.
Given that we are playing a fretless instrument with many gotchas, such as Paralex, Bar Pressure, Issues with thirds, etc., etc, we face more challenges than most.
I'll state my ideas, but I'm also looking to learn a lot from from this discussion.
I practice daily to a drone E, mostly scales and a fret skipping exercise that Paul Franklin posted a while back.
I take original recordings of songs I'm working on and EQ out all but the Bass, loop on parts that need attention and play along. I slow the the track as needed until I can play at the proper tempo. I use a program called TRANSCRIBE! for this. It's just a tool, others use different programs.
On the band stand It's very important to hear the Bass. I make micro-tonal adjustments with the bar to sync by ear. Of course that's impossible when I kick off a song.
Of course the instrument has to be in tune with itself, but that's not the topic here.
I'm listening.... |
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Jason Duguay
From:
Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 7 Mar 2014 5:23 am
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Coming from playing another fretless instrument, the fiddle, I have relied heavily on a point of reference, be it a drone, guitar etc. I find if I can warm up like you said droning a note and walking a scale to and from it, correct pitch usually, hopefully, stays with me for the remainder of my playing that session.
The worst thing for my intonation is when I sit down cold and start noodling around. It feels great and my confidence shoots up. Everything's okay until the other musicians arrive haha.
_________________
Ralph. Mooney. |
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Randy Brown
From:
Knoxville, Tennessee, USA
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Posted 7 Mar 2014 6:10 am
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Try practicing with the lights off occasionally. It forces you to use only your ears, and not worry about those pesky fret markers.
Good topic! |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 7 Mar 2014 8:26 am
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Good tip, Randy, as you can't always see the fret markers, especially when descending. I'm lucky as I come from another fretless instrument, the trombone, so I have the slide/ear programming in place. That's not to say I never play out of tune, but I'm trained to correct it before the listener notices!
So I'm free to worry about feet, grips, blocking, volume...
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Lee Warren
From:
Nashville, Tennessee, USA
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Posted 7 Mar 2014 8:42 am
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Hi Joey,
Great topic.
Whenever possible, I use the piano as my 'try to play in tune' reference, assuming there is one in the band.
These days, they are mostly digital and less likely to drift than the other instruments / vocals on stage.
Not sure it always helps me ... 😄
Of course, if there is no piano, then its the bass.
They usually set the tonal centre of the song.
Just my 2 cents.
YMMV.
Lee |
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Jack Aldrich
From:
Washington, USA
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Posted 7 Mar 2014 8:46 am
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I spend part of my practice time with my eyed closed. It helps with intonation and points out to me when I've slanted the steel, or used too much pressure.
_________________
Jack Aldrich
Carter & ShoBud D10's
D8 & T8 Stringmaster
Rickenbacher B6
3 Resonator guitars
Asher Alan Akaka Special SN 6
Canopus D8 |
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 7 Mar 2014 9:49 am
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My biggest difficulty is hitting the pitches is in a rapid sequence of slides, say harmonized scale type licks.
There's a lot of overshoot, slight arm/bar angle changes...
What's the work around or practice technique for that situation? |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 7 Mar 2014 11:05 am
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| On that interview with Buddy Emmons, he mentioned practicing with the lights off, just he case he ever went blind. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 7 Mar 2014 10:50 pm
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| Tom Gorr wrote: |
My biggest difficulty is hitting the pitches is in a rapid sequence of slides, say harmonized scale type licks.
There's a lot of overshoot, slight arm/bar angle changes...
What's the work around or practice technique for that situation? |
In rapid playing, Duffey used to say "hit the notes fast and they'll never notice." I asked him if he was serious, and he said "mostly. If you hit the next ones right, the wrong one just kinda rolls off the ears."
Mainly practice so that muscle memory puts you in the right place before you can think of it.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Bo Legg
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Posted 8 Mar 2014 12:17 am
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I don't think I Can add much except total frustration when it comes to sounding in tune playing in bands.
I could go on all night about the preponderance of little unexplained things that in a band setting just seem to be impossible to fix.
For instance if My amp is too close to the bass or guitar amp I will sound a little out in recordings but I don't hear it while I'm playing.
I also notice being a little sharp in some keys and a little flat in others.
For instance before the gig we practiced a new song we did it in C and everything sounded just great but then the singer wanted to lower it all the way to key of A.
The song sound in tune until we got to where there was a pause and the band holds an Amaj7 chord. It sounded like crap no matter how many times we tried it. It sounded so great together when we were in C and played a Cmaj7.
So we change key to Bb and we counldn't make anything sound right.
Mind you it was acceptable but never came close to matching how it sounded in the key of C. |
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Paul Sutherland
From:
Placerville, California
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Posted 8 Mar 2014 12:18 am
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Don't trust the frets. Listen and adjust with the bar. If it sounds bad, do something with the bar until it sounds right.
If a chord sounds bad, just play a single note. You should always be able to get a single note in tune.
If a 3 note chord sounds bad, take it down to a 2 note chord. I frequently play just the 1 & 5 intervals of chords when padding and there are tuning issues in the band. Those pesky third intervals can cause lots of problems, particularly when the guitar players are not real well in tune. (When is a guitar ever really in tune?)
_________________
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing. |
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Stuart Legg
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Posted 8 Mar 2014 12:33 am
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Kind of a one trick pony thing with Steel Guitar if you ask me.
Geez guys come on fess up you know you all quiver that bar and roll it back and forth so far at the end of a phrase that it makes a note wider than Texas. |
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Mike Poholsky
From:
Kansas, USA
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Posted 8 Mar 2014 6:04 am
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Bob Hoffner used to have a drone CD available. There are several chords, including some minors. The drone lasts a good 5-6 minutes. It lets me practice songs we play in the band, in the correct key. A droning chord works well because the other related chords in that key will sound in or out of tune as well. It has been very helpful to my intonation.
_________________
Zumsteel 12 Universal
SGBB
ShoBud VP
'64 Fender Twin Reverb/Fox Rehab
Fender Steel King w/BW 1501-4
FX to Taste |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Jim Bates
From:
Alvin, Texas, USA
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Posted 8 Mar 2014 8:18 pm
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Learn to listen to the band and play in tune with them, even though you may have tuned 'perfectly' before the gig started. The lead guitar, especially the one with the super, super thin gauge strings will usually go out of pitch first, and if that is the one the singer is using, you had better tune with your bar to be together. If not you will be the one 'out of tune'.
I think someone called this "dynamic tuning".
Of course if you are practicing alone, then use the drone technique - it works (providing the drone is not affected by pedal drop.
Thanx,
Jim |
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Henry Matthews
From:
Texarkana, Ark USA
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Posted 8 Mar 2014 9:31 pm
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Being a fiddle player as well as a steel player, I think proper vibrato plays a major part in being in tune. Though neither being sharp or flat sound good, sharp sounds better than flat so if your vibrato is going from just a little flat to a more of the sharp side, intonation sounds much better. Also, if you have any kind of recording equipment to record yourself, being out of tune stands out like a sore thumb and you can perfect your being in tune that way.
As Lane said, the fast notes can get away with not being exactly on more so than the slow notes but still important to be really close on most of your runs.
I envy studio musicians who can go into a studio and play their best on a recording. When the red light comes on, I go into rigamortis and can't find my butt with both hands, much less play my best which needs to be done on a recording, however, I am getting better since I have my home studio where I can practice recording and and work on being in perfect tune.
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Henry Matthews
D-10 Magnum, 8 &5, dark rose color
D-10 1974 Emmons cut tail, fat back,rosewood, 8&5
Nashville 112 amp, Fishman Loudbox Performer amp, Hilton pedal, Goodrich pedal,BJS bar, Kyser picks, Live steel Strings. No effects, doodads or stomp boxes. |
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Ken Metcalf
From:
San Antonio Texas USA
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Posted 9 Mar 2014 7:23 am
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Bob Hoffnar's CD is a very good practice tool.
Thanks Bob |
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Henry Matthews
From:
Texarkana, Ark USA
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Posted 9 Mar 2014 8:43 am
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What's a drone track?
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Henry Matthews
D-10 Magnum, 8 &5, dark rose color
D-10 1974 Emmons cut tail, fat back,rosewood, 8&5
Nashville 112 amp, Fishman Loudbox Performer amp, Hilton pedal, Goodrich pedal,BJS bar, Kyser picks, Live steel Strings. No effects, doodads or stomp boxes. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 9 Mar 2014 2:48 pm
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| Paul Sutherland wrote: |
Don't trust the frets. Listen and adjust with the bar. If it sounds bad, do something with the bar until it sounds right.
If a chord sounds bad, just play a single note. You should always be able to get a single note in tune.
If a 3 note chord sounds bad, take it down to a 2 note chord. I frequently play just the 1 & 5 intervals of chords when padding and there are tuning issues in the band. Those pesky third intervals can cause lots of problems, particularly when the guitar players are not real well in tune. (When is a guitar ever really in tune?) |
I like everything you've said there, Paul.  I think that too many times, steelers struggle with getting complex chords in tune, when they could play fewer notes and "nail the thing".
My suggestion would be to play along with music CD's, play along with every one you have. Make it a point to blend in with whatever is happening on the CD, and record what you're doing. When you can listen to those recordings and you sound like you were in the studio with the band when the CD was recorded, then you'll know that you have arrived! |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 9 Mar 2014 3:22 pm
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| Henry Matthews wrote: |
| What's a drone track? |
Henry, Go to the link I posted and it should explain it for you.
Thanks,
_________________
Bob |
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Sid Hudson
From:
Virginia, USA
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Posted 9 Mar 2014 4:08 pm
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| More Vibrato! |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 9 Mar 2014 7:07 pm
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| Less vibrato, more ear-training. |
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James Taylor
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 12 Mar 2014 7:09 am Drone Track
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| Bob, I would also like to know what a " drone track " is also. JAMES TAYLOR SCOTLAND----in the back woods. |
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Mike Petryk
From:
Waterford NY USA
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Posted 12 Mar 2014 1:30 pm
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There are some tunes that use open strings that you can use to practice staying in tune. Ralph Mooney on Under Your Spell Again, or Remmington's Ride, for example.
Regards,
Mike |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 12 Mar 2014 1:43 pm Re: Drone Track
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| James Taylor wrote: |
| Bob, I would also like to know what a " drone track " is also. JAMES TAYLOR SCOTLAND----in the back woods. |
A drone is a long sustained tone or chord. Like holding down a note or chord on an organ.
http://www.bobhoffnar.net/intonation.html
The link should explain things pretty clearly.
Thanks to all you guys that just ordered them. I sent everybody full res downloads. Get in touch if you want me to burn you a CD.
_________________
Bob |
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