copedent comments?

Niklas Widen · From: Uppsala, Sweden

I'm currently in the progress of deciding what brand of guitar I'm going to order, so in the meantime I sat down and thought about the setup. I came up with the following, and would like some comments on this (E9th copedent)

Three pedals, standard emmons setup, except C pedal = 8th string E to F# as well.

6 knee levers
LKL - raises E:s to F

LKR - raises high F# to G# and D# to E

LKV - lowers low G# to F# and high G# to G

RKL - lowers E:s to Eb

RKR - lowers D# to D/C# and low D to C#

RKV - lowers B:s to A

I've never owned a guitar with vertical levers, so I wonder if it's possible to use half-stops on the verticals, or if there is too little space for the lever to travel? Otherwise it would be nice to have a stop on Bb on the RKV... any other suggestions?

/Nicke W

[This message was edited by Niklas Widen on 01 November 2003 at 02:03 PM.]

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

hmmmm

You will probably get a number of comments. I suspect most will have a problem with RKV. I agree. This is not going to be easy to get used to I predict; because of the volume pedal.

I have heard of a limited few who have a right vertical knee lever. Not sure how they like it.

I would strongly suggest you give up that vertical and add a 2nd LKL. While it might warp your mind at first, most of us who have it will tell you it works out great after that initial learning curve.

Finally, I do not know why you do not lean toward the standard E9th copedent with 6 knee levers:

LKL raise the E's half a tone

LKL raise 1 and 7 a half a tone.

LKV lower the B's a half a tone.

LKR lower the E's a half a tone.

RKL raise 1 a whole tone, raise 2 a half a tone and lower 6 a whole tone and split it with the B pedal.

RKR lowers 2 a whole tone with half stop and lowers 9 a half a tone.

This copedent maximizes (IMO) change combinations. Any other arrangement I find has less possible combinations than the above.

Course, it is you who must be satisfied. So in the end, tis best to do those things you like.

May Jesus guide you in whatever you do,

carl

[This message was edited by C Dixon on 02 November 2003 at 07:22 AM.]

Mark van Allen · From: Watkinsville, Ga. USA

I think some guitar brands have a hard time getting enough travel on a vertical to lower the G# to F#, check with the builder on that one. Most people have a hard time using a vertical on the right leg along with the volume pedal, so you almost never see those. The usual option would be a staggered knee, often on LKL, where you put your leg in a bit farther for one L change, and back a couple of inches for the other, using a lever mounted slightly further to the left on the guitar.

------------------
Stop by the Steel Store at: www.markvanallen.com

Mark van Allen · From: Watkinsville, Ga. USA

This from the Department of Redundancy Department:
Carl got in just ahead of me for that one! I agree that the setup he describes seems to be the most useful. Just what I have on my guitar, minus the LKL and turned round to Day setup. I've experimented off and on and it seems the best for me at least.

John Drury · From: Gallatin, Tn USA

Pretty much what Carl D. said, only there is no such thing as an industry standard when it comes to knee levers. Placement of knee levers is much more of an art than a science. If one was to order a new guitar, and you told the builder to just put the standard knees on it they would have no idea what you were talking about.
I see about as many guitars with the E's going down on the RKL as I do with with both E's on the left knee.
I could never play guitars set up the way T.W.'s, Lloyd Greens, or Bobbe Seymours guitar are setup. Behind Bobby Blacks guitar I would be right at home. All four of these guitars have the knees in different places, but lever placement doesn't seem to be holding any of these gentlemen back. I would say when it comes to knee levers-if it feels good do it with the exception of the RKV. JMOHO

John Drury
NTSGA #3

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

"there is no such thing as an industry standard when it comes to knee levers"

With much sincere respect, we will agree to disagree. This according to a telephone survey I took calling most of the manufactures and asking "what copedent do you ship the most."

Their overwhemling and repetitive response was quite standard indeed.

While on this forum and in "talks with buddies", it might appear that everyone is going in different directions. Actual experiments by visiting conventions and checking ALL the guitars they bring to that convenion, plus my survey tells me that their is more a "standard" than what many believe, and it is fast approaching a norm; particularly amongsy new players. Because of this I sincerely believe that as us good ole boys "fade away", there will only be ONE copedent in the distant future.

I realize many will take me to task over this. But time will tell which is true. And that is what counts. As Buddy Emmons said on this forum recently,

"It does not matter what someone says; or how many times they say it, the facts remain the same."

Again very respecfully,

carl

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

Niklas, I have two comments:

You should lower B to A# on LKV. It's become a very standard change, and Jeff Newman will ridicule you in class if you don't have it. (Seriously, you should have it.)

Most people agree that an RKV is impratical. It's too hard to control the volume pedal and move your knee upwards at the same time.

Niklas Widen · From: Uppsala, Sweden

Thanks for your replies, guys! I've actually reconsidered this and as I looked closer at the harmonic possibilities of the different setups, I changed my mind (allright, allright, you win!

) What I wanted was a way of getting those sweet sounds of the "Franklin pedal" changes, but using two separate levers for more possible combinations without having to use splits.

I guess I will only use five knee levers, with B to Bb on LKV, and then move all the C6th pedals one step to the right with an added pedal and have the 5, 6 and 10 lower on pedal 4.

/Nicke W

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

I had the B's down to A once and did'nt find much use for it. But if you want to split the "Franklin" pedal, you can always add the G# to F# (6th string) to the lever that takes the 1st up a whole tone and the 2nd up a half and have the B's to A on a pedal. I have the G# to F# on a lever by itself and I would say it is my 3rd most used knee lever.

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