student won't learn chords & scales

Don Sulesky · From: Citrus County, FL, Orig. from MA & NH

I've have a student now who returns each winter for lessons.
As much as I have stressed to him to learn chords and scales he just will not put them to memory.
I have supplied him with over a dozen charts and tabs of scales that we have gone over in class.
Next lesson I'll ask him where a chord is and he can't even find a C chord in two places.
It is so frustrating, not only for me, but him as well.

All he is interested in is learning new songs from the tab I supply to him at each lesson.
He does very well with the tab but if I take it away from his sight he stops and cannot continue to play.
I don't know if he has a memory problem or not.
I tried to show him another position to play the song that was not on the tab and he said "I can't do it".
I feel sorry for him as he is a great person and a joy to work with so I continue to give him what he wants to play with new tabs.
Thing is he feels happy after each lesson. Maybe that's what matters?

I find this true with many newbies who want to skip the basics and just play songs.
Same as my nephew a few years back who could play the hell out of his guitar doing the harmonic stuff, but didn't even know where a (C) chords was on his guitar. Today he doesn't play at all.

I'd like to hear some feedback from other teachers and how they deal with it.
P.S.
Most of my students are retired here in Florida so this may be part of their rush to just play songs.
Don
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Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

I have never taught steel, as I'm only a beginner, but I have many years experience of teaching other instruments. I once told my boss about this very problem, and he said that although the ones who tried to avoid the basics would not progress very far, not everyone is destined for the top of the tree and the important thing was for them all to enjoy their music, otherwise what's the point of it? It's easy for a professional to forget that there's such a thing as home music-making just for fun.
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Don Sulesky · From: Citrus County, FL, Orig. from MA & NH

Ian
That's pretty much how I look at it, although I'm a self taught musician I took the steps to learn as much theory as I could over my 50 plus years of playing. I just feel it is a waste not to have at least the basics along the way.
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Walter Killam · From: Nebraska, USA

Hi Don,

I'm not much of a steel player, but have been approached many times about giving lessons on bass. I tried a couple of times, but I have no more patience for teaching the basics than my students had interest in learning them. In terms of your student that only plays from tabs, if he's happy & you aren't unhappy then it's a win-win situation and I would let it ride. Eventually your student may want to sit in with other musicians, and that's when he will be ready to put some effort into scales & theory.

Everyone learns at their own rate & in their own way, to my way of thinking, the best teachers that I ever had were the ones that taught me to teach myself.

(FWIW - as some personal background, my Mother was a professor of Music Theory, and I had theory pounded into my head starting at age 3)
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Ray Gehringer · From: New Jersey, USA

I am new to Steel but have been playing guitar for many years and had taught privately having as many as a dozen students per week.

I can understand your frustration as I've been there and definitely admire your patience. There could be a learning disabilty going on and/or there is a possibilty of anxiety (in a clinicle sense) on the part of your student. It may be possible that when his security blanket (in this case tab/sheet music) is removed he freezes up and gets quietly very stressed out. I've been down this road and came to find out a student had this very problem. He was a good kid who in a learning sense was outside the box and after discussing this with his parents we kept on going with lessons for a time because it made him happy... and he did actually learn something. He is a well adjusted adult now and still plays, not on a pro level, but for enjoyment sake.

If lessons with you make the student happy then keep going. He keeps coming back for a reason. Judging by your concern I'm sure you are the type who takes others feelings into account and if you decide teaching this person isn't right for you then let him down easy.

Curt Trisko · From: St. Paul, Minnesota, USA

You're saying that most of your students are elderly retirees? Well, in that case, I'd probably be the same way. Steel takes so long to learn that if they started with the basics they could be dead before they ever learned how to play the songs they like! Laughing

Their goal isn't to be a proficient musician, it's to play the music they love.

I'm just coming up on my second year learning pedal steel and what really motivated me to learn chords and scales was having to create my own musical phrases. Once I got in that mindset, everything began to click and now I'm even starting to figure out how to play songs just by listening to them.

Jim Bob Sedgwick · From: Clinton, Missouri USA

My take on this. It's hard to write a sentence if you don't know the alphabet! Rolling Eyes

Willis Vanderberg · From: Petoskey Mi

A lot of students want to learn a bunch of licks and not try and really learn to play the instrument. I know folks who have been playing for many years and they quit learning after the first couple.How can you ever play the melody if you don't know the fret board, positions and grips ?
I have a serious problem with six string guitar pickers who learned a few open chords and discovered the CAPO. Then they never know what key they are playing in.This is really frustrating when it is the lead vocalist and he is also the rhythm player.
And please don't even think of mentioning the Nashville numbering system...

Old Bud

Willis Vanderberg · From: Petoskey Mi

Don:
I forgot to add, A lady friend teaches both pedal steel and six string. The bulk of her students are seniors. They go to her studio because it gets them out of the house. She also has jams and they get to play. It may not be very satisfying but it helps pay the bills and the old folks have fun..So there are two sides of that coin.

Don Sulesky · From: Citrus County, FL, Orig. from MA & NH

Y'all have made some excellent points which I agree with a 100%. Seems like you've been there, done that.
Yes, he has said he'd like to sit in and jam with folks he knows and I keep suggesting that he does.
As of now he hasn't. Once he tries and sees his situation it may sink in what I've been telling him for three years. In the meantime he seems happy doing what he does, so I just give him what he wants.
Old Bud,
Nice to hear from you.
Yes, we have many down here who use the capo and ask me at jams what key am I in. Rolling Eyes

""My take on this. It's hard to write a sentence if you don't know the alphabet!""
Jim Bob
It doesn't seem to hurt some college football & basketball players from making millions once they become pros. Sad

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"Steel guitar is like playing chess in the dark with three players". Jeff Newman quote from 1997 seminar

Barry Blackwood · Posted 28 Feb 2014 10:19 am

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Les Anderson · From: The Great White North

Joey Ace · From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

Calm down, Richard. He never said Capos were useless.

They are tools, that when properly used are an important part of a player's arsenal.

Willis' point is valid. A lot of player just use them as a crutch, not understanding what they're doing.

Could Paul Simon ever have played the haunting arpeggio to Scarborough Fair without one?

Joey Ace · From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

Back to the original question...
I believe it's the teacher's responsibility to explain to the student the need to understand theory, and how it will benefit them.

If after the student is properly informed, they still want to avoid it and just have fun with tab... so be it. You've done your job.

Ray Montee · From: Portland, Oregon (deceased)

I never really wanted to teach any way however after being pestered to do so, I relented.

I've posted this earlier but I'll say it again. I got sick and tired of these 40-50 year old males striding in the door and telling me what they wanted and expected to learn on that specific occasion.

After about twenty minutes of total lifetime, learning time, they were (in their minds) ready to play Patsy Clines' "Crazy" or whatever else came to their minds. When I tried to explain why it was important for them to have some basics as a foundation they'd typically puff up their chests and
become irritate.

Like you say, if they can't find any of the chords by name, where are they going to go.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

People remember things better if they have to make their own charts. Giving scale or chord charts to students doesn't help them very much. What helps is showing them how to make a chart, and giving an assignment to make their own.

I sometimes give "kitchen table" lessons for things that are essentially brain work. Start with something simple. Have pre-printed blank fretboard charts that they can fill in. People learn concepts pretty well when they have to chart them out themselves.

I also sometimes, depending on the student, teach them how to write their own tab. Teach them a lick verbally at the guitar and then have them tab it. This skill is very useful in the first few years of playing, when the student is learning things off of records. The act of writing something down is a very strong memory aide. They might never have to go back and read the tab, because while writing it they committed it to memory.

Donny, I practice scales every time I sit down to practice, before I start working on songs. It's how I warm up. It's a good thing to do, in my opinion. Often I stumble upon a new position while warming up with harmony scales or even single note scales, and those positions find their way into my playing.
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Don Sulesky · From: Citrus County, FL, Orig. from MA & NH

b0b
I have had good success doing exactly that with most of my students. Some who have had some playing experience with other instruments seem to pick up the steel faster than others. It seems to be only the students who have no knowledge of music other than turning on the radio that don't want anything to do with knowing anything beyond the tabbed out sheets. I have tried to the point of frustration with blank sheets. Once I tried having a student finish the song Happy Birthday after I tabbed out the 1st part. He did it quite well...others can't do any of it.
I find that they mostly have trouble picking the right strings or group of strings.
Although this post is about those who just don't care or haven't the ability to do it on their own.
I also have had a couple of students who I have told not to waste mine or their time any longer.
I learned how to read music in school in my 3rd year class.
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"Steel guitar is like playing chess in the dark with three players". Jeff Newman quote from 1997 seminar

Ben Lawson · From: Brooksville Florida

I like that idea b0b. When I did a lot of singing I found that writing the lyrics made it easier to remember them. Apparently I forgot that I used to do that.

Bo Legg · Posted 28 Feb 2014 4:49 pm

Hey kid, girl, boy, old person or idiot would you like to learn this tab to a song or would you rather learn a 5 note scale and 3 chord forms and go play in a band?

Richard Tague · From: Cowden, Illinois, USA

Every student is 100% different. I know, a few of my 6 string guitar and bass students have had piano lessons as a child and the 1st thing they say is, "I HATED them, because I had to play scales for hours on end." And as a result, they hate piano.
We all know, for most people anyway, in order to be very proficient at any instrument, you must be able to "See it." Sure, there is a certain "Feel it" to great players...but they still can see it before they play it...be it, a scale, chord progression, number system, etc. We all know that basic leads and fills come out of basic chords and more advanced leads and fills come out of scales. However, some people just want to "Play" music...not "Make" music. So, for those who want to learn...they'll do the homework and come back asking questions. For those who merely want to play music, give them a tab and let them be happy playing someone elses music. I've had students are perfectly happy me showing them how to play a certain song. Whereas others want to know "Why" a certain lead uses this Dorian mode instead of a Aeolian mode. Those are the ones that usually make Me do my homework. Confused

For all of my students who want to learn the how's and why's...I show them on a piano vs the instrument they are wanting to learn. It's much easier to "See it" on a piano...C major scale = all white keys from C to C. It's easier to "see" which note is the 3rd, to flat for minors. Easier to "see" the Number System, when they can count up the white keys.

Everyone learns different...just as everyone Teaches different. And most know, some can teach and others can't learn...and Vice versa.

Bill Moran · From: Virginia, USA

Not learning scales is why I will never be a good player. I never had a teacher . Things that I learned was by trial and error. I can play 1/2 @$$ed scales that I made up over the years. I doubt that any are correct. I don't know what correct is. I do know that the good players are the ones that know what they are doing and why.
My advice to a beginner would be learn all the scales and theory possible.
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David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

Don Sulesky · From: Citrus County, FL, Orig. from MA & NH

What if you give the student the assignment to make out his own charts and he doesn't do them?
Yet he loves his lessons learning a new song(s).
He will never be a good player and he knows it, but is happy just to learn the songs he asks me to tab out for him.
I think this is the bottom line. He plays to make himself happy. Smile

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"Steel guitar is like playing chess in the dark with three players". Jeff Newman quote from 1997 seminar

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