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Topic: Why play console instead of lap? |
Rex Krueger
From:
California, USA
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Posted 24 Feb 2014 7:58 pm |
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So, I built my first steel (a six string) a few years ago and now I'm getting ready to get started on an 8-string. I just assumed that I would make it a console steel, but it occurred to me that I'm not sure what the advantages of console steel are.
I assume that you can have it up little higher (obviously) and give your neck a break. I also assume that it might benefit your posture while you play. I've also noticed that my right leg working the volume pedal does make the steel bounce around a little. This would not be a problem on a console.
But I'm still not sure if the extra cost (legs or a stand) and the extra setup time makes sense for a single-neck instrument.
So, how about it? Why play console instead of lap? |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 24 Feb 2014 8:02 pm
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Maybe you might like to stand. Also, you'll get a better tone with the steel on legs than on your lap--a huge difference, actually. It's also better for executing moves the full length of the neck, whereas if it's on your lap, you can be somewhat restricted.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Robert Allen
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 24 Feb 2014 8:05 pm
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| The leader of one band told me a console commands more respect and makes it look like I'm playing a real instrument. |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Posted 24 Feb 2014 8:32 pm
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Consoles are a little more comfortable to play. And sometimes it's easier to play certain techniques because the guitar is standing independently on legs and is stable. And like you said, there is no issue with the volume pedal making one knee higher than the other. Of course, consoles are not as portable as lap steels. I tend to prefer lap steels for that reason. If I'm going pack a heavy body and legs into a case and haul it somewhere and set it up... I'll just take one of my single neck pedal steels. The main attraction of non-pedal steel to me is portability, light weight, ease of setup. I do agree with Robert's bandleader's comment about a console looking better on a bandstand.
_________________
My Site / My YouTube Channel
25 Songs C6 Lap Steel / 25 MORE Songs C6 Lap Steel / 16 Songs, C6, A6, B11 / 60 Popular Melodies E9 Pedal Steel |
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Dom Franco
From:
Beaverton, OR, 97007
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Jeff Spencer
From:
Queensland, Australia
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Posted 25 Feb 2014 4:07 am
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Portability is the key here, and yes there is a tonal variance as Mike said, but to offer another spin on the appearance on the bandstand factor. I have had people say my lap steels look like toys not real instruments, then you plug in in dial up the tone for grungy blues with overdrive, then turn to sweet Hawaiian with a flick of the switch, then to swing by pulling back the tone, then to finger style ala Kelly Joe Phelps then to some old time country ala Don Helms with a quick tuning change. Then I have had them walk away saying "smart a*#%se" . And I am not the greatest of players.  |
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Jerome Hawkes
From:
Fayetteville, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 25 Feb 2014 4:07 am
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if you don't "need" multiple tunings (more than 1 neck) - i don't see the benefit of a console. Most of the gigs i do are just a few songs a set on steel (does anyone get to play steel all night anymore?) and its wayyyy too much to drag all that around.
one other benefit not mentioned to consoles is the ability to play another instrument on stage "at the same time".
of course, you don't have to go full console - you can easily add legs to a lap build
_________________
'65 Sho-Bud D-10 Permanent • '54 Fender Dual-8 • Clinesmith T-8 • '38 Ric Bakelite • '92 Emmons D-10 Legrande II |
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Andy Henriksen
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 25 Feb 2014 4:56 am
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Definitely a comfort thing for me. Even though I try to have good posture while I sit at the console, if I need to stretch out my legs, even mid-song, I can do so without my guitar dumping. And I can adjust my butt to a slightly different spot on the chair as needed, lean my torso left or right as needed, etc., all without changing the position of the guitar at all. I like to think that translates to fretboard accuracy (but it's possible that by having the guitar "decoupled" from my body, I'm actually in less control...hmmm).
And +1 on the volume pedal comments.
Oh, and I can't believe this wasn't mentioned, but it serves as a place to leave your bar and picks (and harmonicas, cigarettes, etc.) between sets. |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 25 Feb 2014 3:48 pm
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A console which is solid, such as the Fender Stringmaster, is basically a lap steel with legs. In fact I often play console steels without the legs, with the instrument on a table.
But a lot of console steels are hollow, and having a resonant cavity in the body definitely has an effect on the tone of the instrument.
I've built both lap steels and console steels, and I think they all have their place. I'm currently working on a console steel with a built-in resonator. It will have both magnetic and piazzo pickups. |
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Chris Scruggs
From:
Nashville, Tennessee, USA
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Posted 25 Feb 2014 11:25 pm
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For the added fuss of two extra minutes setting up and breaking down, and perhaps an additional 7 lbs or so in gear lugging, you get these very helpful benefits from playing a steel with legs:
1. The option to stand while playing or to find a different guitar height than on your lap.
2. You're guitar will not bob up and down when you work your volume pedal.
3. Better angle on the fretboard. With your right leg out from under the guitar, free to work your volume pedal, you can set your guitar at an angle where you don't have to reverse your wrist angle when playing high. You can maintain almost a straight line from your elbow to your fingers anywhere on the fretboard this way.
4. You won't have to set your guitar on a chair or lean it against your amp when you aren't playing it. It can just stay where it is.
5. It's easier on a gig where you might have to double on another instrument, also providing a permanent place to lay your bar and picks safely when not in use. This ties into the reason above listed in number 4.
6. The guitar has a more solid foundation than if it were sliding around in your lap.
7. You end up with a happier, less sweaty and numb lap at the end of the night. |
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Tim Whitlock
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 26 Feb 2014 9:05 am
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| What Chris said, but I would add that a stand of some kind might give you the best of both worlds and also you allow you to use both your lap steels, in different tunings. |
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Tom Wolverton
From:
Carpinteria, CA
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Posted 26 Feb 2014 9:24 am
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...and with legs, people will ask you what that "keyboard thingy" does?
I tell them it's a musical ironing board.
_________________
To write with a broken pencil is pointless. |
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George Keoki Lake
From:
Edmonton, AB., Canada
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Posted 26 Feb 2014 9:59 am
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| I think I now understand why SOL HO'OPI'I, DICK McINTIRE, ANDY IONA and all the greats of yesteryear had such poor quality of tone and were seldom able to manage slants. Interesting. And to think each of them played a single neck 6 string lap! (ha!) |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 26 Feb 2014 10:08 am
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| George Keoki Lake wrote: |
| I think I now understand why SOL HO'OPI'I, DICK McINTIRE, ANDY IONA and all the greats of yesteryear had such poor quality of tone and were seldom able to manage slants. Interesting. And to think each of them played a single neck 6 string lap! (ha!) |
But George: just think how good their tones could have been!
What I noticed most (and believe me, I played on my lap for years) was that the sustain increased exponentially.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Jack Aldrich
From:
Washington, USA
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Posted 26 Feb 2014 11:07 am
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I prefer to use a double (or triple) 8 console for playing gigs because I use multiple tunings (C13, B11, E9) and my D8's (Canopus and Stringmaster) fit into an overhead, so I can take them on the road with me. I can adjust the legs so that I can sit on about any armless chair, and I often stand when playing with a band. I use my single 6's when I'm playing oldies, like Kohala March, when I'm doing a lot of hammer-on's and need a III note on the top. - Jack
_________________
Jack Aldrich
Carter & ShoBud D10's
D8 & T8 Stringmaster
Rickenbacher B6
3 Resonator guitars
Asher Alan Akaka Special SN 6
Canopus D8 |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 26 Feb 2014 11:23 am
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A console with legs gives you somewhere to stand your glass of whisky on.
But, seriously, watch the videos of Jerry Byrd playing, and you'll see that the whole time he's playing the console steel is vibrating/rocking slightly from side to side. That must certainly have an effect on the tone, which he wouldn't get if he laid the instrument on a table.
Someone mentioned ironing boards. An old cut-down ironing board can be made into a useful musical stand for keyboard or lap steel. Of course, it's easier to convert a wooden ironing board than one of the tubular steel type, unless you're handy with a hacksaw and know how to weld.  |
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Chris Scruggs
From:
Nashville, Tennessee, USA
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Posted 26 Feb 2014 3:20 pm
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I'm not at all saying th is anything wrong or incredibly hindering about playing on your lap.
Consider what Jerry Byrd did with a Rickenbacher sitting on his lap!
Also consider that by the late fifties he had moved to setting up his guitar on a stand or on legs, and did so predominantly for the rest of his career.
Whatever you are used to will work fine, as you're used to it. The legs do make one spoiled though, once you start doing it and you miss it when they aren't there. Something to strongly consider. |
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Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
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Posted 26 Feb 2014 3:26 pm
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| Alan Brookes wrote: |
Someone mentioned ironing boards. An old cut-down ironing board can be made into a useful musical stand for keyboard or lap steel. |
Yeah, but then you'd look like a dork, unless of course one doesn't mind looking like a dork.
If I'm the bandleader, there will be no dork steel players in my group... 
_________________
Mark |
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Dick Chapple Sr
From:
Hardin Montana, USA
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Posted 26 Feb 2014 3:51 pm console or lap style playing.
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I purchased an "On Stage" brand KS7150 model keyboard stand from Musiciansfriend that has been perfect for me. It is adjustable in width as well as height. I can rest any of my single and double necks on it with ease. It is solid and doesn't wiggle and there's room to put a coffee cup on the stand. For about $79.00 it was a far cry cheaper than buying a $200 set of legs. This is not one of those criss cross legs stand but one that you can get your legs under. So one stand works for all my lap steels rather than equipping each with their own set of legs.
so I can take my lap, throw in the keyboard stand and go. No legs to screw on underneath, quick setup. I bought some black non-skid rubbery shelf liner material to lay on the stand to set the guitar on so it doesn't slide around on the stand.
Oh and I can snap my bradsrack on to the keyboard stand also to hold my music.
I played my steels on my lap for years but I really do much better with the guitar on a stand.
Then of course I can still just set the guitar on my lap at any time, provided I find a chair that is the right height so my steel doesn't slide off my lap while playing. |
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Stephen Baker
From:
Lancashire, UK
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Posted 26 Feb 2014 5:34 pm
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| Quote: |
| Someone mentioned ironing boards. |
I once played a gig in a friend’s back garden with the steel on his wife’s ironing board. Come to think of it, the drummer played washboard on a few numbers. If the Bass player had gotten hold of a washtub bass we could have had a whole laundry theme going. Steve |
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Mark Roeder
From:
Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 27 Feb 2014 8:21 am
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As I approach sixty, I find looking down my lap is not good for my posture. Numbness, etc. Sitting or standing I like the instrument positioned for comfort.
Also, if I am looking at music I can keep the fretboard in my sightline while reading.
_________________
www.deluxe34.com lap steel stands, Clinesmith, Gibson Console Grande, Northwesterns, The Best Westerns
https://www.facebook.com/TheBestWesterns |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 27 Feb 2014 10:54 am
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| Mark Eaton wrote: |
| Alan Brookes wrote: |
...An old cut-down ironing board can be made into a useful musical stand for keyboard or lap steel. |
Yeah, but then you'd look like a dork, unless of course one doesn't mind looking like a dork.... |
If I worried about looking like a dork I would never appear anywhere.
It's my natural state.   |
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Webb Kline
From:
Orangeville, PA
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Posted 27 Feb 2014 11:05 am
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| Mike Neer wrote: |
What I noticed most (and believe me, I played on my lap for years) was that the sustain increased exponentially. |
It really does. I have a single Remington 8 that I play live with and set it on a 2nd tier of my keyboard stand above my piano. The sustain of that guitar is incredible, yet when I practice on it on my lap at home, I doubt that the sustain is more than 2/3 of what is is on the stand. |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 27 Feb 2014 1:01 pm
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That's what few amateur musicians realise. The back of the instrument is a major contributor to the sound. I've seen so many guitarists holding their guitars tight against their bodies. If only they realised they were muffling the sound. I build a lot of board zithers, the most common board zither being the Mountain Dulcimer. I always make sure that they have tiny felt patches on each of the underneath corners, which keeps the back of the instrument from touching the stand or table. Hammer dulcimers have an amazing amount of sustain and they are always played on stands.
This applies to the front, too. Fitting a pick-up to the table of an acoustic guitar deadens the sound. That's why most jazz guitars originally had floating pickups, as an extension of the pickguard, which kept the pickup from touching the guitar except at the edges.
My experience with lap and console steels is that their acoustic properties ARE transferred through the pickup to the amplifier. The sustain of an instrument is determined by its physical dimensions. No amount of amplification is going to change that. |
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