Lower 6 or Raise 7? |
Lower String 6 |
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71% |
[ 20 ] |
Raise String 7 |
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28% |
[ 8 ] |
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Total Votes : 28 |
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Author |
Topic: One more knee lever: S7 F#-G or S6 G#G-F#??? |
Tom Gorr
From: Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 21 Feb 2014 9:23 pm
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Title self explanatory...I'm going to be adding one more knee lever to get to six knees, and while I've been kind of predisposed to putting a String 6 G#--F# lower - I've been fooling around with some blues/rock stuff by tuning my S7 up a half step to get a dom 7th in the pedals down position, and that change has a lot of merit.
If you had to choose between them, which one would you go with? |
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Lane Gray
From: Topeka, KS
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Posted 21 Feb 2014 10:28 pm
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If you have an all-pull guitar, dropping to F# will give you a G in pedals down. _________________ 2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Ken Pippus
From: Langford, BC, Canada
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Posted 21 Feb 2014 11:07 pm
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Correct, Lane, if you can tune the split. |
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Jim Priebe
From: Queensland, Australia - R.I.P.
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Posted 22 Feb 2014 12:07 am
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I already have a G#'s down to G lever ( I have the m6, m7 or m9 option there) but the F# (7 string) up to G on an up lever in combination with the AB pedals down I find is very handy too. _________________ Priebs GFI ('09)Short-Uni10. GFI ('96)Short-Uni SD11. ('86)JEM U12
www.steelguitardownunder.com |
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Richard Sinkler
From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 22 Feb 2014 12:20 am
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I have the F#'s to G on my vertical lever, but I also lower my 6th to F# on another lever. I use the 6th lower a heck of a lot more than the 7Th(or 1st - use this one more than 7) raise. I also split string 6. _________________ Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Mike Perlowin
From: Los Angeles CA
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Posted 22 Feb 2014 2:27 am
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I say raise 2 F# strings.
If you raise the F# stings to G (natural) you get a a A7 chord with the pedals down, and a B augmented 7 with the B pedals and E-Eb lower. _________________ Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Dale Rottacker
From: Walla Walla Washington, USA
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Pete Burak
From: Portland, OR USA
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Posted 22 Feb 2014 9:55 am
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Hey Tom, fwiw, Once you have the cross-rod installed with the knee lever and bellcranks on it, you can move the pull-rods back and forth pretty easily to try out both changes.
I have both of those changes and I would say the 6th string lower is more flexible overall, with regard to usage for fast scales and chord forms.
It's nice to have E,F#,G on strings 8,7,6, for getting from here to there during single note runs, for just one example.
You may also already raise your high F# to G on P5, which is a pretty common C6th change ala Jimmy Day, and is also on a lot of Uni's. On some of my steels I play A+B with left foot and P5 with right foot to raise the high F# to G as needed.
The other thing is... It is very easy to raise either of your F#'s to G with a behind the bar pull when needed.
Behind the bar lowers are substantially trickier! |
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Richard Sinkler
From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 22 Feb 2014 10:42 am
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Something I never see discussed much. Strings 1,2, & 5 give you a B chord. Raising 1 to G give a Baug. Lower 2 to D and get a Bmin.
How many besides me use that B position? _________________ Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Pete Burak
From: Portland, OR USA
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Posted 22 Feb 2014 11:07 am
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That's a good one Richard.
If you use that grip as the 1-chord, adding the B-pedal on the G# strings brings you to a 1(7th).
Then use that grip to slide up to the 4-chord and 4-minor, as you said,... or the 4(7th).
'Makes for a good blue-grass-ee banjo-roll position. |
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Mike Perlowin
From: Los Angeles CA
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Posted 22 Feb 2014 12:34 pm
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Richard Sinkler wrote: |
Something I never see discussed much. Strings 1,2, & 5 give you a B chord. Raising 1 to G give a Baug. Lower 2 to D and get a Bmin.
How many besides me use that B position? |
I use it occasionally. Not very often. _________________ Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Roger Rettig
From: Naples, FL
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Posted 22 Feb 2014 12:50 pm
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I'm for raising the 7th but I raise it a whole step.
I use that a lot with pedals down and I get a major 7th sound with that slight dissonance when 7 and 6 are played together. If I want the b7th then half-pedalling is easy. _________________ Roger Rettig - Emmons D10, JCH D10, Quilter TT-12, B-bender Teles and old Martins.
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Harry Dove
From: Michigan, USA
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Posted 22 Feb 2014 4:48 pm
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Richard, I consider that my secondary "no pedals" position. In addition to what you mentioned, strings 3 & 6 give you the 6th note. You can raise 3 & 6 a half step for a M7. If you lower string 8 you get a nice low major on 10, 8, and 7. 10, 9 and 7 is a nice low minor. You can also lower string 2 or 9 to get a 9th. When I rework my guitar I'm going to add some compensators to deal with some of the tuning issues in this position. |
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Greg Cutshaw
From: Corry, PA, USA
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Posted 22 Feb 2014 5:03 pm
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I like raising the 7th string a whole step over doing any lowers with the 6th string. More versatile and it can dupe a lot of the sounds that you get by lowering the 6th. |
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Paddy Long
From: Christchurch, New Zealand
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Posted 23 Feb 2014 3:30 pm
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I have both on separate levers .... I raise 1,2 and 7 a whole .... and have the G# - F# lower on a separate lever on my 6 knee left cluster - also with the split G note.
Also have the Franklin pedal as well. _________________ 14'Zumsteel Hybrid D10 9+9
08'Zumsteel Hybrid D10 9+9
94' Franklin Stereo D10 9+8
Telonics, Peterson, Steelers Choice, Benado, Lexicon, Red Dirt Cases. |
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Ian Rae
From: Redditch, England
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Posted 23 Feb 2014 3:38 pm
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It's interesting that Greg, who has a modern instrument and can do it both ways, prefers the 7th string raise. On my old pull-release I don't really have the choice but I can get the same sounds - I just have to think ahead, that's all. To me a raise has more feel than a lower. _________________ Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Roger Rettig
From: Naples, FL
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Posted 23 Feb 2014 3:41 pm
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Um... so do I. _________________ Roger Rettig - Emmons D10, JCH D10, Quilter TT-12, B-bender Teles and old Martins.
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Mike Perlowin
From: Los Angeles CA
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Posted 23 Feb 2014 4:34 pm
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I have all 3 changes; F# strings to G on a vertical, G#s to G natural on a zero pedal, and the 2 lower G# strings (6 and 10 on my U-12) lowered to F# on a knee lever that also raises the 3rd string to A, but only because it wouldn't lower all the way.
The truth is, these are my least used changes. I like having them, but could live without them if I had to. _________________ Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Brint Hannay
From: Maryland, USA
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Posted 23 Feb 2014 4:56 pm
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I have all three, too (basically the same three as Mike--though the term "all three" leaves out the F# string(s) whole-step raise that's also been referenced here): I have 7th string to G on LKV (I don't also raise the 1st string because I like having the 1st string F# available against the A7 chord), 3 and 6 lower to G on LKL front, 6 lower to F# on LKR front (I lower my E's on RKL).
But, unlike Mike, who says he uses those three changes the least, in my case a couple of them see constant use. In fact, I have a couple of guitars with "only" 4 levers, and on those I have string 6 lower to F# with a half stop for G as the 4th lever (after E raises and lowers and 2nd/9th string lower).
(Notes: mine is a 10-string E9th tuning, and I have not to this point done anything with split tuning) |
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Steve Lipsey
From: Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 23 Feb 2014 6:09 pm
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I love the V chord from lowering E and the G#->F# - squeeze knees together for it - it just has a pretty sound and seems more in tune than dropping down and using A+F.... _________________ https://www.lostsailorspdx.com
Williams S10s, Milkman Pedal Steel Mini & "The Amp"
Ben Bonham Resos, 1954 Oahu Diana, 1936 Oahu Parlor |
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Ian Rae
From: Redditch, England
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Posted 24 Feb 2014 12:52 am
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+1 - I think staying put if you can sounds better because there is a fixed note for reference - if you use A+F, everything is on the move. _________________ Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Steve Lipsey
From: Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 24 Feb 2014 10:35 am
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Ian- I actually like both versions of the V chord, sometimes the motion is nice also...I was more saying that the A+F is harder to play in tune - I flatten the E->F raise, but still it is a difficult chord, tuning is in conflict with other chord forms..the flattened tuning of G# (the 5th of this chord) hurts...in the G#->F#+E->D# version, you don't have that problem.. _________________ https://www.lostsailorspdx.com
Williams S10s, Milkman Pedal Steel Mini & "The Amp"
Ben Bonham Resos, 1954 Oahu Diana, 1936 Oahu Parlor |
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Ian Rae
From: Redditch, England
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Posted 24 Feb 2014 11:06 am
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Steve - I'm a big fan of the A+F combination but I admit it needs care. I have my guitar in natural tuning so that the C# chord is sweet enough, but then it has to be played about a third of a fret up. My other instrument is the trombone, where you sometimes have to shorten a position, so I'm used to it and I don't mind! _________________ Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Tom Gorr
From: Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 24 Feb 2014 9:30 pm
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Thanks all who contributed to the discussion and voted.
Always nice to have more to think about rather than less...ultimately Pete Burak will be correct...I can just slide the bellcranks around on the crossbar until I figure which combination does what I prefer...how different movements and patterns fit together for the most effective use based on how I play.
Lots of great ideas...never even considered a whole tone raise on 7... |
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Ian Rae
From: Redditch, England
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Posted 25 Feb 2014 5:07 am
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Tom, I put it on as an alternative to lowering 6, which on my instrument would put a ton of slack in the B pedal. Raising 7 is elementary, and it was just sitting there waiting to be asked. At some point I might try a ½ stop for G. _________________ Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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