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Topic: 12" vs 15" - sound diff at playing position? |
Steve Lipsey
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 16 Feb 2014 11:02 am |
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The amps sound the same out front (Milkman Sideman with Telonics 15" and Milkman Mini with Telonics 12") - but I suspect that I'm missing something about how they sound from playing position...
I gigged the Mini for the first time, played (no mic on amps) at what I thought was the same volume as usual (with the Sideman), but people later told me that I was freakin' loud....
What is the volume/frequency distribution pattern of a 12" vs a 15"?
How should I compensate? Put the little amp on a stand so it sounds louder to me? Just play more (apparently) quietly?
_________________
https://www.lostsailorspdx.com
Williams S10s, Milkman Pedal Steel Mini & "The Amp"
Ben Bonham Resos, 1954 Oahu Diana, 1936 Oahu Parlor |
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Jeff Porter
From:
Stumptown, OR, USA
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Posted 16 Feb 2014 7:45 pm
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Hey Steve
From what I've read the larger the speaker the narrower the dispersion pattern.
I recently went to a 15 from a 12 and didn't notice a whole bunch of difference.
In some of my guitar amps where I have experienced a narrow dispersion pattern I've used Weber's Beam Blockers with great success. They work really well on small stages where you have to be really near your amp and don't have a lot of flexibility in positioning your gear (hello White Eagle). You might lose a touch of high end (easily made up for with a little boost on the treble knob) but you get pretty even sound across the stage.
JP
_________________
"I make dozens of dollars a year playing music." |
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Jeff Porter
From:
Stumptown, OR, USA
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Posted 17 Feb 2014 5:44 pm
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Steve I just remembered that I have an extra 12" Beam Blocker laying around.
If you want to take it for a spin give me a shout.
JP
_________________
"I make dozens of dollars a year playing music." |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 19 Feb 2014 4:17 pm
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The easiest thing is to turn the mids and treble down a bit when using a 12" speaker vs. a 15" speaker. The smaller speakers have more highs, and that usually translates to sounding louder.  |
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Steve Lipsey
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 19 Feb 2014 10:57 pm
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Thanks, guys!
Another factoid....I had this amp to my side, with nothing in front of it...I usually put my amp behind me, pretty close...this probably also had something to do with misjudging the volume...
_________________
https://www.lostsailorspdx.com
Williams S10s, Milkman Pedal Steel Mini & "The Amp"
Ben Bonham Resos, 1954 Oahu Diana, 1936 Oahu Parlor |
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 20 Feb 2014 3:11 pm
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1) Sound dispersion is different for different wavelengths, regardless of driver size. Highs will be more directional than lows, and at lower frequencies the cabinets with larger radiating surfaces will be more directional than those with small baffle areas.
2) Open-backed cabinets, such as found in most combo amps, allow a great deal of sound energy to radiate from the back of the speaker. As this energy is 180 degrees out of phase with that radiated from the front of the amp, the sound waves arriving in the area beside and above the amp from front and back will cancel each other out.
If you are sitting beside an open-backed combo amp you will not only miss the directional highs, but the less-directional mids and lows will be cancelled as well, thus if you could hear yourself at all while doing so you were probably shattering ice-cubes at the bar all night... |
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Les Cargill
From:
Oklahoma City, Ok, USA
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Posted 20 Feb 2014 4:32 pm
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So if you look at the Eminence website long enough ( not something I recommend, but ... ) , you begin notice that the 10" speakers run about -3dB in sensitivity relative to the 15". 101 dB @ 1 W-m for the 15" vs 97 @ 1 W-m for the 10" - that's 3dB with some rounding.
Two 8 ohm 10" Deltas in parallel can use about the same power as one 4 ohm 15" Delta, and you'll get roughly the same conversion to energy - though they will sound different and two speakers interact with
each other.
So *all things being equal*, a 12" will be slightly *less* loud than a 15", proportional to the surface area of the cone run through the dee-bee configurator whachamacallit calculator.
But things are never all equal. |
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