PSG Solos

Bob Doran · From: Ames, Iowa, USA

Why is it that the PSG is the most beautiful instrument in the world when it plays back-up, yet seems to fall short when it plays the solo?
Those back-ups, fills and embellishments are what makes country sound country and their beauty just leaves me astounded.
But i think i am not the only one who thinks the solos, for the most part, are unimpressive. There is something about the sound of the steel that just not come across here.
Would it help to add an effects box to somewhat alter the sound for the solo, perhaps with a little distortion?
I ask this question in all sincerity and in the hopes of stimulating a discussion on this issue which is a mystery to me.
Bob

Joey Ace · From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

You've got to kidding.
If not, I disagree strongly.

Rebel just reopened his Tab sight.
(Actually there's a lot more sound clips than tab.)

Browse there for a few hundred examples of great solos. And that's just scratching the surface.

Bob Doran · From: Ames, Iowa, USA

Will do.
Please remember, i was speaking more as John Q. Public, and not a steel guitar aficionado. And it could just be me, obviously.
The banjo has a similar problem with the melody. It is hard to identify on the banjo, because of the 5th string drone, which obscures the melody.
Thanks for suggestion.
Bob

Chris Forbes · From: Beltsville, MD, USA

Bob, I would respectfully suggest that you've been listening to the wrong solos. Anything by Lloyd Green just oozes taste and tone. I would also recommend just about anything you can find with Jimmy Day on it also. That's some purdy playin' right there between just them two cats.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Many steel players, on solos, use mostly single string melody lines. The steel's sound, being so "pure", comes across to many as being rather simple, or plain (for lack of better terms). Aficionados say this isn't true, and argue amongst themselves relentlessly about the character and overtone structure the instrument has.

For those who are not steelplayers or aficionados, I urge you to listen to some playing by Curly Chalker, or Maurice Anderson. You will hear far more chord work in the melody lines, and I think your opinion might change.

Kevin Hatton · From: Buffalo, N.Y.

The pedal steel has always been primarily a complimentery lead instrument noted for for its great solos. Your question is just plain strange. Screw distortion.

[This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 19 October 2003 at 12:15 PM.]

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

wow,

Did I really hear you right?

I suggest the following needs a relistenin'

1. When I Call Your Name.

2. Look at Us.

3. Together Again.

5. Night Life.

6. One's on the Way.

7. We Could

8. Sweet Memories by Faron and BE.

9. Someday Soon.

10. Don't Rock the Juke Box.

11. ANY recording by Ray Price made using the steel once JD and BE got on the scene.

12. ANY recording Buck Owens made using the steel.

13. Any recording made by ET using the steel.

14. Any recording made using Wynn Steward.

15. Any recording made by Connie smith using the steel.

16. Any recording made by George Jones using the steel.

17. Any recording made by Jack Green using the steel.

18. Any recording made by Loretta Lynn using the steel.

19. Any recording made by Waylon Jennings using a steel.

20. Any recording made by Willy Nelson using a steel.

21. Any recording made by so many others I cannot possibly list them all.

Where you been dear friend? Did you just arrive here from outerspace or sunthun?

Bless you,

carl

[This message was edited by C Dixon on 19 October 2003 at 12:51 PM.]

Brendan Dunn · Posted 19 Oct 2003 11:43 am

I often hear a haunting vocal or violin quality to the steel that I find very enjoyable as a solo instrument, and as a backing instrument, it seems unparalleled.
It often sounds very different from many of the fretted guitars solos I've heard. I'm glad for it's uniqueness!
Brendan

Robert Thomas · From: Mehama, Oregon, USA

I fell in love 57 years ago. It was love forever with the most beautiful sound of music from a steel guitar. After fifty years of playing backup and varous solos, I now get to do what I want to do and that is make beautiful, "solo" music on my steel guitar, to an audience that loves every song I play. Who could ask for more.
All I wanted to say is that I feel that the steel guitar is so beautiful, and my wife also has never tired of my music. If I just sat home and played just for her everyday she would be happy. I guess I don't need to say any more. I am prejudiced when it comes to steel guitar and its exclusive sound. "Music without words and none needed."

Ray Minich · From: Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra

Please order Junior Knight's tape, the one with "Think I'll lay right down and cry myself to sleep" on it. If that steel lead doesn't shoot down your hypothesis nothing will.

(No slights intended to the other grand masters, here, it's just the tune I'm workin' on at the moment...)

Either you ain't gettin' enough steel, or you ain't gettin' any good steel. You need a good steel fix bad....

Dekley S-10, Emmons S-10, Nashville 400

Bob Doran · From: Ames, Iowa, USA

Thanks for all the great suggestions!
I will make every effort to become more educated, although i can say with assurance that i love the steel as much as anyone else here.
I did review all the breaks at rebel steel.
Most were intros, fills and turnarounds, not solos but were definitely beautiful.
To my mind, some of the solos backed up my point about the melody. They were at times frenetic, with too much musicianship.
The prettiest stayed very simple and true to the melody.
If you play the 1975 tune there "old joe clark" i am sure you can see my point. The melody is not identifiable. Just play it for some of your friends and ask them if they can name the melody!
In the meantime, i will bow out, and study the suggested songs, leaving any further discussion to my betters.
bob

Ulf Edlund · From: Umeå, Sweden

I've come to the conclusion that it depends on who's playing.

Uffe

HowardR · From: N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville

Joey Ace · From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

Hey Bob, there's nothing wrong with an honest question.

Try these sound samples: http://www.steelguitarcanada.com/audio.htm

They're not HowardR.

David Doggett · Posted 19 Oct 2003 8:31 pm

Bob, I'm not sure we understand your question. By "solo" do you mean steel taking a ride in a band? Or steel playing a whole instrumental song with a band backing? Or steel playing a whole song alone with no backing?

Steel taking a ride in a band has been a staple of country music for many decades, and I'd have to say the popular demand verifies the beauty of that.

Steel playing a whole instrumental song with a band backing has not been very popular, but then there are few full length instrumentals with any instrument these days (except in jazz and classical, of course).

Steel playing alone with no backing is a sort of musicians' music that seems to exist mostly as pieces at steel shows and swapped among fellow steelers. Even most of that has some kind of minimal backing - BIAB or drum machine, etc. (which I find very boring and annoying after awhile).

Playing completely solo steel is a real challenge. Every flaw (notes or tone) sticks out. But it is the only way to hear the full beauty of the instrument. In a band, much of the tonal texture of the steel is covered up, especially the low notes and harmony. I'm always dissappointed that so much of what I hear playing alone doesn't come through when playing with a band. You have to stick with the high stuff that can cut through the mix. The low stuff is just lost and muddied by the bass and drums. Is that what you are talking about?

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

Bravo David,

Very well put. I too would like a clarification of it.

To expound on what you said, (and you were sooo right), it is sad that the bass and drums had to evolve into "Lead" instruments in most bands today. As I was growing up, it was taught that drums and particularly the bass was "felt, not heard". I shall never get used to them now.

And they do in fact destroy most of the timbre in music, save the hight notes that "cut through". One experiment that often proves this, is to turn the volume way down low on a record, CD or tape player and see what one hears.

NOW before you do this, keep the following in mind. IF you have turned the "loudness" control off (if your unit has one), the human ear should hear little to NO bass or bass drums as you approach complete off.

This due to the way human ears were created, IE, the lower the volume the less we perceive low frequencies.

Now with that, MOST recordings today will show that one hears the bass even at miniscule volume levels. This says the dang thing is TOOOOOO loud over all.

Of course its root cause is in the rebellion of the 60's, which dictated that ANY thing good, proper, decent or moral had to be expunged. So today we are left with the elloquent scenario you painted in your post.

Now couple that to the "framming" drummer who has lost his hearing long ago from listening to too loud music and you have bands where most ALL one hears today is the bass and drums. Melody has little or no place in the music most listen to nowadays in live shows.

So sad,

What hath man wrought? May Jesus forgive us for our discretions,

carl

Bob Doran · From: Ames, Iowa, USA

I was referring primarily to the instrumental break common to most all songs.
It just seems to me, that the steel sounds like an entirely different instrument when it plays lead in the break, as compared to its backup role.
Those fills and intros just pull on one's heart strings like no other instrument on the planet.
But when the steel powers into the lead, to me it often sounds too "jazzy", and often played with way too many grace notes, at way too frenetic a pace.
The actual sound and texture seems different to me also, although i can't put it into words.
I suppose we are getting into personal taste here.
There are some solos like Somday Soon that someone mentioned that are just breathtaking in their beauty, but many to me fall short.
I am sorry to have offended anyone as this is PSG paradise here on this board.
If no one else has noticed this, then obviously i am in the minority of one!
Bob

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

Bob,
I think you are just filtering what you hear through your own preferences and that's fine -- we all do it. I prefer a jazzier approach, whether it be Joaquin or Buddy or Paul Franklin playing WAAAAY outside on an E9 solo. Sounds like you prefer a more 'inside' style, with note choice dominated by the chord and scale tones. Many players I know strive to get away from that sound by introducing chromaticism, chord substitutions, and, yes, an element of jazz thinking into their E9 playing. You like what you like.

I suspect you prefer Lloyd Green over Paul Franklin for E9 playing. Right?

Or maybe you just prefer the sound of the steel on slow songs???? Are there uptempo steel rides you enjoy? If so, which ones?

------------------
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 20 October 2003 at 07:41 AM.]

David Doggett · Posted 20 Oct 2003 7:03 am

Okay, now I think I understand your question, Bob, and to some extent I agree. Playing the melody beautifully would frequently be a better steel break than what we hear. Playing the melody is much harder than simply sticking somewhere within the chord and playing licks for fills. When a ride comes along I think beginners are happy just staying within the right chord and playing whatever comes up, or simply stringing licks together. It sounds like they are being creative with the melody, rather than that they can't find it.

Then as players progress they get into the hot licks rut to show off their technical virtuosity. The melody is lost, and the listener yearns for it. "Someday Soon" is a great example of the power of playing the melody. Jim Cohen's solo CDs are full of a lot of powerful melody playing. In fact all solo steel albums have a lot of melody playing by necessity. But these same players seem to forget that when they do a break in a regular song, and they lapse into "improv" and hot lick playing. A lot of this is the fault of producers and arrangers. If they want melody instead of hot licks, they should ask for it. The pros can surely deliver.

Carl, although I struggle with the bass and drums, I appreciate that there is a time and place for them. Having grown up in North Mississippi in the '50s and '60s, I remember the thrill of the beat in early rock'n'roll, rockabilly, and rythmn & blues. Sixties rock, Southern rock, punk, new wave, rap, grunge, pop/rock country, etc. are all attempts to recreate that thrill.

I still like that thrill, and just started playing steel and sax with some young guys who do neorockabilly and alt country "with punk flavoring" (according to the reviewers). I just stay up on the high strings, mash the hell out of the pedals and play it wild instead of purty with them. It's been a real challenge getting my volume and speed up to theirs. I still love the thrill of it.

But I couldn't live on that alone. I play with another group with a quiet fretless bass, no drums, and male and female vocalists who do quiet, purty stuff from different genres. I can get down on the low strings with some nice harmony under their vocals. And that's a thrill too.

"For everything there is a season, and a purpose for everything under heaven".

But, Carl, you are right about being able to hear things better before rock'n'roll. When I go back and listen to Bud Issaacs' original pedal steel solos with Webb Pierce, you can hear each instrument so well. That's been lost to the "wall of sound" of modern pop, rock and country.

Scott Swartz · From: St. Louis, MO

I wonder if the texture difference Bob is referring to is the fact that a single note line on steel would typically be played with less volume pedal action, ie a lot more attack?

Also a lot of steel is recorded very clean and/or direct through a very clean preamp which has a certain tonality, some would say its too "plinky" (for lack of a better term), I personally like the tube amp to a mic approach better myself.

Some nashvegas 6 string guitar sounds too clean and plinky to me also, of course its all what the producers think is the hot sound. Compare a lot of it to for instance Brad Paisley playing through that Dr. Z amp he is using, where he is getting some good old tube amp distortion, just enough to add some character.

The wall of sound David mentions is a problem too, the massive overcompression that is used in the studio so that the song sounds LOUD when it comes on the radio.

I think it sounds like too much compression assualting my ears because some idiot record execs thinks it will help sell more platters of the latest hat act.
It squashes everything together and squeezes all the life out of the music.

And don't get me started on Auto Tune. They will probably want to put that on steel next! Either you can sing or not, fixing one note I can see, but beyond that take some vocal lessons or find a new line of work.

Multiple edits for typos, I am trying to multitask

[This message was edited by Scott Swartz on 20 October 2003 at 08:35 AM.]

[This message was edited by Scott Swartz on 20 October 2003 at 10:03 AM.]

[This message was edited by Scott Swartz on 20 October 2003 at 10:05 AM.]

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

To answer your question I have three words..
I need no more.

Lloyd Green Revisited

Ernest Cawby · From: Lake City, Florida, USA, R.I.P.

Anyone ever hear of Jeff Newmans JUST PLAY THE MELODY.
wE ARE NOT BEING PAID TO WRITE A NEW SONG.
A lot of players do the licks because they do not know the songs.

ernie

Susan Alcorn (deceased) · From: Baltimore, MD, USA

The pedal steel guitar is a warm and beautfiful solo instrument. However, when you're playing solo, you have to think, feel, and play differently. You have to let the steel guitar and the music breathe in a different way. You don't have to be able to hit all the bass notes or the high notes, but you have to (in my opinion) play in such a way that they perhaps hinted at and are not missed when they are not being played. Much of this is in the phrasing. Also, I think it helps to have a concept and a vision of what you want to say.

Rich Young · From: Georgetown, TX, USA

Many years ago I heard the solo to "together again" and since then have always wanted to play pedal steel (the verses ain't bad either Winking

. It only took me 30 years to get around to it, but that was one of the first things I learned.
It's one of those solos where the steel plays the melody. And the harmony. And counterpoint. ;-)

Just listened to the Jimmy Day stuff on that Willie Nelson demo CD, the back up is great, the intro is great, the solo is great.

I've played guitar for 30 some years and I went thru a phase of "how much can I jam in this solo?" - but I got old and lazy and just play what sounds good to me - which is a lot less notes than it used to be. I'm trying to avoid that phase on the steel, we'll see.

Terry Edwards · From: Florida... livin' on spongecake...

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