| Author |
Topic: C6 music nerds... what's your desert island knee set up? |
Scott Hay
From:
Portland, OR / Yucca Valley, CA USA
|
Posted 15 Feb 2014 10:31 pm |
|
Okay seasoned C6 players with an affinity for a traditional music, popular approach to country, western swing, jazz. Those who enjoy a simple pedal set up. I seek affirmation or guidance from your hard earned wisdom.
If you could only have two changes on your C6 knees, what would they be?
There's all kinds of things that "can" be done with lots of levers and changes, but I'm talking meat and potatoes here.
Set up assumptions:
I'm planning on swapping RKR to C to C# on string 3. It seems much more useful than the A to Bb, which feels "redundant". I feel equipped for my dominant needs with the pedals (5,6,7,8, lots of options). The current set up feels like poor allocation of resources and I find myself wishing I had C to C#. BUT…. as a new student of the C6 tuning.... I doubt my judgement and fear unintentionally loosing useful combinations I don't see yet. Not having C to C# seems akin to not having your F lever on E9.
If I ditched the A to Bb, what would I be loosing?
If your passionate about that change, explain it's usefulness beyond a convenient Dominant 7th and point out any choice combinations I may be missing.
| Quote: |
You may be thinking:
"Why do you specify that it's a push pull Scott? It's all steel guitar." |
True dat. I point this out as a reminder that split pedal combos aren't relevant on a P/P. The other being, there's currently 3 pulls on that lever (2 on E9, A to Bb on C6 string 4). Swapping a half step pull from string 4 to string 3 will be pretty much the same. If I add the string 7 pull will I be crossing the County Line into Stiffsville?
Would you add a 3rd (5th) lever? If so, what would you add? And most importanly WHY (as in what musical application)
While I'm not planning to, I also wouldn't rule it out. We're all here, why not ask. I also welcome a dialogue about D on top vs. G on top.
A bit about me…. I've found I'm not one for complex set ups or "forests of knee levers". I'm not knocking it, it just isn't' my style. I'm simple and easily confused (sarcasm.... or is it?). I'm not a tinkerer, and found I enjoy and have benefited from subscribing to the "less is more" approach with set up.
While it's likely I'm over thinking this and have answered my own question, I appreciate your insight as to what you use, but also why and how. Thanks in advance!
Last edited by Scott Hay on 16 Feb 2014 10:27 am; edited 4 times in total |
|
|
 |
Ken Pippus
From:
Langford, BC, Canada
|
Posted 15 Feb 2014 10:41 pm
|
|
That A-Bb in the root position is really useful. So is the C-C# and the C-B. I suspect Lynn can put another lever on for you. I'd do that, and add an A-Ab to the mix. Five and four on the C neck gives you tons of flexibility.
Guess I didn't answer your question, but that would be the answer I'd pursue. |
|
|
|
Scott Hay
From:
Portland, OR / Yucca Valley, CA USA
|
Posted 15 Feb 2014 11:41 pm
|
|
| Thanks Ken. Look forward to meeting you someday soon. |
|
|
|
Chris Gabriel
From:
Oregon, USA
|
Posted 16 Feb 2014 9:50 am
|
|
That A to Bb lever can produce a 7sus with P6 and a 7+ With P5. I wouldn't say I'm passionate about it, but I like it! Also in combo w P8 produces a full diminished,.
That P6 combo is nice; release the lever release the sus, if that makes sense.
Scott, I'm new to E9, and can explain and show C6 stuff pretty well. C6 for E9? I'd love to get together..,Chris
_________________
MSA Classic 1973
BMI D-10
chrisgabriel.com
chrisgabrielpdx |
|
|
|
Scott Hay
From:
Portland, OR / Yucca Valley, CA USA
|
Posted 16 Feb 2014 10:06 am
|
|
| Ahh... I see the Sus in pedals down, duh. Thanks Chris! Definitely swap for some E9, would be fun! I'll PM you my phone #. |
|
|
|
Brett Lanier
From:
Madison, TN
|
Posted 16 Feb 2014 10:19 am
|
|
"- RKL: C's to B on string 3 and 7"
Is that a typo? |
|
|
|
Scott Hay
From:
Portland, OR / Yucca Valley, CA USA
|
Posted 16 Feb 2014 10:25 am
|
|
Yes  thank you |
|
|
|
Brett Lanier
From:
Madison, TN
|
Posted 16 Feb 2014 12:00 pm
|
|
"Less is more" is good. I've had that change (C#) and not had it. My vote would be to learn to play without it first, and keep the kl's you have the way they are.
Try that ped 6 + rkr combo three frets back from the root position. |
|
|
|
Darrell Birtcher
|
Posted 16 Feb 2014 12:42 pm A to Ab
|
|
This is an excellent topic Scott, and I'm glad you brought it up. It's addressing some of my own questions and I like the way you stated things very concisely.
I have a question for Ken Pippus. Could you elaborate on your comment about adding an A-Ab to the mix?
Specifically, which would be the best knee lever to add this change to, and would you put it on both strings 4 and 8, or just 4 or just 8? I'm kind of assuming it would just go on string 4.
THANKS |
|
|
|
Ken Pippus
From:
Langford, BC, Canada
|
Posted 16 Feb 2014 4:40 pm
|
|
I have it on 4 and 8 on LKL, with a separate C6 set of levers in the middle. I use it less than any of the others mentioned.
Last edited by Ken Pippus on 16 Feb 2014 6:25 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
|
|
Darrell Birtcher
|
Posted 16 Feb 2014 5:34 pm
|
|
| Thank you Ken. |
|
|
|
Ian Kerr
From:
Queensland, Australia
|
Posted 16 Feb 2014 5:59 pm
|
|
| Might be helpful to also read current thread titled 'C6 Dom 7#5' before you ditch A to Bb raise.In particular , what Earnest Bovine says. |
|
|
|
Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
|
Posted 16 Feb 2014 11:01 pm
|
|
| It might be worth mentioning that in his "Basic C6th" course, Buddy Emmons writes for "pedals 5 through 8 and two knee levers. [The 3rd string B lower] is found on most guitars, but if you do not have [the lever that raises 3 and 7 to C#], I recommend putting it on." That suggests that BE prioritizes that change over the 4th string Bb if you're only going to have 2 levers. FWIW. |
|
|
|
Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
|
Posted 17 Feb 2014 5:23 am
|
|
I reject the premise. I have 4 C6 levers, and wouldn't want to lose any of them.
My levers:
LKV: both As to Bb
LKR: P5
RKL: 4 to Ab, 8 to G
RKR: 3 to B
Buddy's both Cs to C# is on P8 (since P5 is on a knee, pedals 6-8 are moved over one to the left)
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
|
|
|
Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
|
Posted 17 Feb 2014 11:55 am
|
|
I have both knees on the right and both working the 3rd string: RKL = C>B and RKR = C>C#
Just as on the E9 neck, the tonic flat and sharp are my first choice for knees, all else is secondary in importance IMHO. |
|
|
|
Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
|
Posted 17 Feb 2014 12:41 pm
|
|
At the risk of drifting off-topic, but still on the subject of C6 change options, what does anyone suggest doing with string 1 (D)? At the moment I have a semitone raise hooked up to P5, which is useful at some times but a nuisance at others. Any suggestions - including "don't bother"?
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
|
|
|
Abe Levy
From:
California, USA
|
Posted 17 Feb 2014 5:27 pm
|
|
I don't want to hijack the thread here, but I'm wondering if people put a c to c# on the RKR on a push pull? So it's shared on the E neck? Mine lowers 2 a full tone with a feel stop and lowers 9 half. I'd love to be able to add the c raise on the same lever but don't want to mess up my lowers on the E neck.
Advice?
Thanks!
_________________
Mostly Pre-1970 guitars. |
|
|
|
Scott Hay
From:
Portland, OR / Yucca Valley, CA USA
|
Posted 17 Feb 2014 8:53 pm
|
|
Dave you raising both (3+7)? On your P/P? Thanks!
Brint, noticed the same thing. For a D on top set up, made sense as Big E explains in the course.
Brett, if I'm doing my math right, gets an Am7 (C6) 3 below 3-7, same inversion on fret 12 strings 4-8, right? What am I overlooking? School me brother.
Sorry to disappoint Lane, but I'm a knee lever Luddite. .
Big emphasis on WHY gents.
Abe, I can't speak to raising both 3 and 7, but I can say raising 4 on C6 neck a half stop on RKR, with standard Emmons E9 change worked good. |
|
|
|
Brett Lanier
From:
Madison, TN
|
Posted 17 Feb 2014 9:07 pm
|
|
You got it Scott. Just helping fill in the gaps  |
|
|
|
Abe Levy
From:
California, USA
|
Posted 17 Feb 2014 9:33 pm
|
|
Thanks Scott. I've got a couple of instant on bell cranks I've been saving, so I'll give it a try...
_________________
Mostly Pre-1970 guitars. |
|
|
|
b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
|
|
|
|
Scott Hay
From:
Portland, OR / Yucca Valley, CA USA
|
Posted 17 Feb 2014 11:36 pm
|
|
| Quote: |
b0b said:
I do miss having the C to C#. I like the C raise on LKL because it's the same movement as the F lever on E9th |
b0b, I thought about inverting them for that reason, and to have less tension on RKR if I raise two C's. I see your 6 to b7 on your guitar, RKR. And, your P4 serves P6 function of C6.
So how do you like to use your RKR? Favorite uses that would cross over to a traditional C6 set up? I know you feel me on less is more.
On your set up, LKL, 3 above serve's the same utility as the C raise I'm thinking of swapping. (makes a 6-1-3, a 1-3-5 inversion). You have it, just not where your brain wants it. 
Your tuning's an impressive allocation of resources. |
|
|
|
