| Author |
Topic: Last minute cancellations |
Rick Barnhart
From:
Arizona, USA
|
Posted 15 Feb 2014 10:10 am |
|
Well, I don't know how to start this thread...I'm booked tonight at a local restaurant/bar, it's nice little joint and we've played there several times. I have a REALLY good guitarist/singer, who adds quite a bit to our trio. He texted me at 10:30 am to let me know he picked up a better paying gig tonight, and he just couldn't turn it down. I haven't answered because I'm doing my best to remain civil. We can still do it, there'll just be a huge part missing. Needless to say, I'm not happy and I'm in a jam. How many times has this happened to you and how did you handle it?
_________________
Clinesmith consoles D-8/6 5 pedal, D-8 3 pedal & A25 Frypan, Pettingill Teardrop, & P8 Deluxe. |
|
|
 |
Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
|
Posted 15 Feb 2014 10:29 am
|
|
Not sure if this applies to your situation or not but around these parts, among responsible musicians, if a better-paying gig comes up for somebody that they just cannot afford to miss, it becomes their responsibility to find a sub for themselves for the prior commitment. (Of course, the sub has to be acceptable to you, but it's on them to do the legwork -- and not to accept the other job until they have found the sub.) That's probably easier in jazz groups than in some other types of ensembles...
_________________
www.JimCohen.com
www.RonstadtRevue.com
www.BeatsWalkin.com |
|
|
|
Rick Barnhart
From:
Arizona, USA
|
Posted 15 Feb 2014 10:36 am
|
|
Thanks Jim. I think you nailed the key word here...responsible. Personally, I'd pass on the better paying job in favor of honoring my original obligation. Busy tonight? 
_________________
Clinesmith consoles D-8/6 5 pedal, D-8 3 pedal & A25 Frypan, Pettingill Teardrop, & P8 Deluxe. |
|
|
|
Jim Smerk
From:
Ohio, USA
|
Posted 15 Feb 2014 12:04 pm
|
|
This type of situation has happened to me more than I can remember over the years.
A pro would never cancel a gig for a better paying one. In musicians circles in this area, the word gets around QUICK that you are un-reliable, thus in the long run you don't get the gigs.
The pro's find a suitable sub and don't leave you hanging if something un-avoidable comes up. At times that is not possible & it is up to the band to find a sub.....
And since we played standard 50-90's country - classic R&R a fill-in could cover with no problems most of the time.
But to drop a gig that paid less the night of the show? He would be boycotted from here on out...IMHO |
|
|
|
Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
|
Posted 15 Feb 2014 12:35 pm
|
|
That's completely unacceptable!!! In my case civility wouldn't be a problem because I wouldn't call him again. In my opinion he's committed professional suicide.
_________________
Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
---------------------------------- |
|
|
|
Ken Campbell
From:
Ferndale, Montana
|
Posted 15 Feb 2014 12:54 pm
|
|
| I'm with Roger. Total burn. Never call again, and negative recommendations. |
|
|
|
Mike Kowalik
From:
San Antonio,Texas
|
Posted 15 Feb 2014 2:26 pm
|
|
That guy is pretty low...obviously not a man of his word.....I'd pass his name around the local musical community as to what a chump he is....
_________________
Cremation is my last shot at having a hot body...... |
|
|
|
Rich Gardner
From:
Columbus, Ohio, USA
|
Posted 15 Feb 2014 4:33 pm
|
|
| Not to be trusted. S*#t can him. |
|
|
|
Fred Justice
From:
Mesa, Arizona
|
Posted 15 Feb 2014 4:48 pm
|
|
Rick I'd drop this dud from my contact list like NOW, he'd never get another phone call from me.
With me, there's a few things you only get one chance to pull and this is one of them.!!!!!!!!!
_________________
Email: azpedalman@gmail.com
Phone: 480-235-8797 |
|
|
|
John Haspert
From:
Illinois, USA
|
Posted 15 Feb 2014 7:55 pm Dud- No Show
|
|
This guy is totally unprofessional and a total & complete A$$ H%^e. I agree with the rest- cross him off of the list, bad referrals etc. Professionals just don't do stuff like that....EVER! That is, unless you are attending YOUR OWN FUNERAL!!!
_________________
Pedal Steel Guitar is "Music from Heaven" |
|
|
|
joe long
From:
San Antonio, Texas
|
Posted 15 Feb 2014 8:25 pm
|
|
The same thing happens many times in reverse when a band drops someone at the last minute when better player becomes available.
Many years ago I played in a well known band in Dallas. When they called me I told them up front that I was not a "hot" picker. They wanted players who would be dedicated to improving their musicianship and show up for the jobs. They really stayed away well known players. I stayed with this band for 8 years. |
|
|
|
Rick Barnhart
From:
Arizona, USA
|
Posted 15 Feb 2014 9:07 pm
|
|
| Fred Justice wrote: |
Rick I'd drop this dud from my contact list like NOW, he'd never get another phone call from me.
With me, there's a few things you only get one chance to pull and this is one of them.!!!!!!!!! |
Hey Fred, I considered calling you...but it was WAY last minute, and a long drive for you. The gig went pretty well considering.
Thanks all, I posted my rant while I was very frustrated...I shouldn't have. The guy really is okay, but he's having some serious money issues right now. While it sucks to be left hangin' like that, all went well.
I got a well thought out PM from one of our members, it was good advice and I'm gonna take the high road. It may not be as satisfying as slammin' the door in my buddy's face, but... Lets just say lesson learned. I wouldn't do someone like this, I just wouldn't.
_________________
Clinesmith consoles D-8/6 5 pedal, D-8 3 pedal & A25 Frypan, Pettingill Teardrop, & P8 Deluxe. |
|
|
|
Jim Smerk
From:
Ohio, USA
|
Posted 15 Feb 2014 9:58 pm
|
|
Good luck....  |
|
|
|
chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
|
Posted 15 Feb 2014 11:59 pm
|
|
i'm with everyone on the responsibility issue. there should be no excuse.
....however.....in the sometimes funky local scene..i've seen lots of stuff happen. it can really piss you off at the time, but i may be back playin' another gig with the flake cause he's really good and i like him...!
i've got some really talented friends who sometimes have trouble making ends meet.
now on a more professional level of gig i'd say it can't be tolerated. |
|
|
|
Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
|
Posted 16 Feb 2014 3:21 am
|
|
there is no such thing as " I found a better paying gig and I can't make the one I committed to " especially on the day of the gig. Had he called you and discussed it with you earlier in the week,asking if you could release him from the date, maybe. But that would have been your call, not his.
I don't care what kind of money issues he is having and one can only wonder why that is now, big surprise.
Nice guy ? perhaps..but he is not a good musician guy , you just empowered him to do it again. You should expect him to do it again. I suspect he already has with others...
If it was my call I personally would never call him again for a gig and I would let him know why, no hesitation...
How many people would call you again if you bailed on a gig for more pay or better conditions ?
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
|
|
|
Howard Steinberg
From:
St. Petersburg, Florida , USA
|
Posted 16 Feb 2014 5:40 am
|
|
I was the leader of a very successful R&B band for about 20 years. I never liked using subs but it is a part of the business. Horn players were my biggest problem as far as picking and choosing what gigs they would do. This band was a lucrative proposition and I paid very well. It was a reading gig and was usually easy to sub for horn players. If I got wind that a player was picking and choosing I simply replaced him/her. Bailing at the last minute is about the most unprofessional, unacceptable thing that a musician can do. People often get comfortable, with an inflated perception of their value to the band, and believe that they are entitled to do stuff like this. I did have a trombone player who called me an hour before a gig to tell me that he had a cold and his wife wouldn't let him go to the gig. I actually found a sub and the guy who bailed was quickly replaced. Zero tolerance on this one! I'm getting annoyed just thinking about this.
_________________
Justice Pro Lite (4-5), Justice D-10 (8-5)x2 , Quilter Steelaire, Hilton Pedal, BJ's bar. |
|
|
|
Jerome Hawkes
From:
Fayetteville, North Carolina, USA
|
Posted 16 Feb 2014 6:02 am
|
|
Now, just to be clear Rick - this was a (decent) paying gig and this guy is a regular member of your trio & not someone who just sat in a few times - I'm confused by your post wording before we hang this guy...
_________________
'65 Sho-Bud D-10 Permanent • '54 Fender Dual-8 • Clinesmith T-8 • '38 Ric Bakelite • '92 Emmons D-10 Legrande II |
|
|
|
Rick Barnhart
From:
Arizona, USA
|
Posted 16 Feb 2014 7:12 am
|
|
Jerome, it's a decent paying, regular gig, and he's a regular member of our group, who, around here, will be next to impossible to replace. The gigs he goes for are better paying, solo jobs and he doesn't have to split his take.
What I meant by taking the high road is, I won't do anything to injure his reputation, I think he's taking care of that by himself. What I meant by lesson learned: I'm not calling him again, because that would put me in a position of depending on him...something he's demostrated that I can't do.
He plays and sings so well, he doesn't need us. He's on his own, but his manager's name is Kharma...same as mine. I wish him well, I think we'll be ok without him. I love you guys, your support is unwaivering.
_________________
Clinesmith consoles D-8/6 5 pedal, D-8 3 pedal & A25 Frypan, Pettingill Teardrop, & P8 Deluxe. |
|
|
|
Ken Campbell
From:
Ferndale, Montana
|
Posted 16 Feb 2014 7:48 am
|
|
| Good call. Well done. |
|
|
|
Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
|
Posted 16 Feb 2014 9:02 am
|
|
That's a good attitude, Rick - I commend you for it.
But I do think it's important that he knows why he's no longer on your list of go-to guys. Then there'll perhaps be a lesson leanred on his side as well.
_________________
Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
---------------------------------- |
|
|
|
Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
|
Posted 16 Feb 2014 9:14 am
|
|
good call Rick, but in my mind he should know why you are not calling him anymore ..you may save the next leader a headache plus he needs to hear it so possibly he will rethink doing it again. If he decided to opt out again he should know that with that comes consequences, no mater how good he is.
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
|
|
|
Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
|
Posted 16 Feb 2014 11:16 am
|
|
I have an agreement with my "main" band that I will also be playing at gigs where I like the type of venue better. They know that the second band takes priority. This stems from the main band's reluctance to find new gigs as the one's we have disappear. But, never do I give them less than a weeks notice. And it is not for more money. Although they pay a bit more than the main band, the amount of gas used to get to the gig and back brings it down to the range the main band plays for. They have the option to have someone sub for me, play it as a 3 piece (No steel) which is what they prefer to do, or replace me in the band altogether. They understand that I need something more than what they offer and work with me on that. But never would I do something last minute (which to me means 3 days or less).
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
|
|
|
Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
|
Posted 16 Feb 2014 11:44 am
|
|
The rule is as has been stated here - you are obligated to find a replacement who meets with the aproval of the MD/bandleader! If you cannot meet that obligation then you are committed to the original agreement and must do the gig.
Earlier this year I was in such a situation. I'd been doing some work with a band in Sebring, FL that was very enjoyable in its way but hardly lucrative. Then I had a call for a pro gig that would pay me a four-figure sum each week; the only trouble was that I'd committed to a single Saturday night with the Sebring band which clashed with the theatre engagement.
I called the bandleader with my heart in my mouth! He couldn't have been nicer and said that he had someone who could cover for me and I was free to accept the better job. He understood it was my living and let me off the hook. As onerous as it would have been, though, I would have stood by my obligations; the reality was that I was glad enough of the lower-paid gigs when I had nothing else but that brings with it a responsibility to be as good as your word.
_________________
Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
---------------------------------- |
|
|
|
Rick Barnhart
From:
Arizona, USA
|
Posted 16 Feb 2014 1:24 pm
|
|
| Roger Rettig wrote: |
| I would have stood by my obligations; the reality was that I was glad enough of the lower-paid gigs when I had nothing else but that brings with it a responsibility to be as good as your word. |
and there it is ⬆⬆ as painful as it may be, you must say what you'll do, and do what you say. I'm not gonna let it eat at me, these kind of things happen in the business, it's just disappointing when money presides over keeping an obligation.
_________________
Clinesmith consoles D-8/6 5 pedal, D-8 3 pedal & A25 Frypan, Pettingill Teardrop, & P8 Deluxe. |
|
|
|
Herb Steiner
From:
Spicewood TX 78669
|
Posted 16 Feb 2014 6:32 pm
|
|
| Roger Rettig wrote: |
The rule is as has been stated here - you are obligated to find a replacement who meets with the approval of the MD/bandleader! If you cannot meet that obligation then you are committed to the original agreement and must do the gig.
Earlier this year I was in such a situation. I'd been doing some work with a band in Sebring, FL that was very enjoyable in its way but hardly lucrative. Then I had a call for a pro gig that would pay me a four-figure sum each week; the only trouble was that I'd committed to a single Saturday night with the Sebring band which clashed with the theatre engagement.
I called the bandleader with my heart in my mouth! He couldn't have been nicer and said that he had someone who could cover for me and I was free to accept the better job. He understood it was my living and let me off the hook. As onerous as it would have been, though, I would have stood by my obligations; the reality was that I was glad enough of the lower-paid gigs when I had nothing else but that brings with it a responsibility to be as good as your word. |
You handled the situation like an adult, explaining the truth with compassion for the bandleader. He in turn did the gentlemanly thing and graciously let you off of the obligation.
But this was an extremely situational gig you've described, Roger. Not all issues are black and white, and life's realities and priorities must be factored into the decision making.
Let me offer another scenario, one not very far-fetched at all, since I've experienced almost every type of situation like this, as a full-timer, part-timer, and band leader.
In semi-pro bands that are comprised mostly of part-timers and guys with day jobs, it can be precarious for the one guy in the group who's a full time professional. If one of the part-timers has a conflict with his day job... the money from which allows him to indulge his music gig... undoubtedly the day job would take precedence over the music job and everyone in the band most likely understand since they all have day jobs as well. And likewise for the professional, the pro level gigs that pay big bucks allow the full-timer to accept the $50 jobs. So, given enough reasonable notice, there shouldn't necessarily be a contentious situation.
Let's turn the tables around. Suppose the band has a gig on the books. The pro player, who needs some bucks, has turned down higher paying gig for that date, and then the lead singer says "guys I have to cancel the Saturday gig because I have to work late at my day job, which is what pays the rent. Sorry." Then the bass player says "well, I wanted to go to the lake anyway." So the gig goes away.
What's the ethical situation there? Is the pro-level player owed nothing at all, is he owed what he would have made at the gig, or is he owed the bucks he turned down?
It's simply the bar band biz. Some bands feel that if a player accepts an occasional gig with some other group for a lot more bucks, it's like leaving your wife at home to date your hot ex-girlfriend, but if it's not another musical gig that's the competition, somehow it's not "cheating."
Mind you, I'm not talking about cancelling a $50 job the day of the gig to accept a $75 gig somewhere else. But given enough notice, and with a healthy stable of adequate sub players, the conflict shouldn't be an issue.
This stuff happens in Austin all the time ... ALL THE TIME. Fortunately, there's more than enough out-of-work pro-level players here to meet all the demand, and more so.
_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
|
|
|
