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Topic: Chord interpretation help needed ... |
Pete Nicholls
From:
Macon, Georgia, USA
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Posted 11 Feb 2014 7:13 pm |
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Just got this book and need help interpreting a couple of things. The middle pic is a C augmented and the right pic is a C. The 10e lever has me baffled. Can someone tell me where the e pedal is taking that note? I also wonder what the "8va" represents. Some of the chords have that and some don't! I wish the author had shown what the levers d, e and f do so that I could make any adjustments for my copedent if necessary. Thanks for any help, and once I get this figured out, the book will become very useful.
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Justice The Judge SD-10, 2007
Justice Pro Lite SD-10, 2011
Quilter Steelaire
Quilter Labs Tone Block 202 Head
Roland Cube 80-XL
American Stratocaster - Yamaha Bass Guitar
1 Fender Telecaster Nashville Edition
Ham Call: N4BHB |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Jerome Hawkes
From:
Fayetteville, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 11 Feb 2014 7:21 pm
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"e" normally stands for "lowering the E's on a knee lever" - i.e., to Eb"
"f" normally stands for "raising the E's on a knee lever" - i.e., to F
thats not always the case, but i think most tab is that way. it looks like the author has used "e" for what most tab calls the "d" lever - which lowers the 2nd sting.
the "8va" in the standard notation means that those notes are written an octave higher than noted. thats standard in music notation - if not for that, you would have to write the notes on ledger lines all over the staff and it gets cluttered.
_________________
'65 Sho-Bud D-10 Permanent β’ '54 Fender Dual-8 β’ Clinesmith T-8 β’ '38 Ric Bakelite β’ '92 Emmons D-10 Legrande II |
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Dennis Russell
From:
California, USA
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Posted 11 Feb 2014 7:41 pm
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The middle chord is not a C augmented. It is a C diminished. Second string is the root C (lever lowers string 1/2 step); third string is dimished 5, Gb, (b pedal 1/2 step raise); fourth string is minor third, Eb, (f lever is 1/2 step raise); sixth string is Gb, (b pedal, 1/2 step raise).
The chord on the right is a C major. The 2nd string is being lowered a 1/2 step and is the root of the chord.
A C augmented chord would be spelled c, e, g#.
If you have a question about what a lever does while looking through a book like this where the copedent may not be given, figure out what note is being played. That will tell what the lever associated with that string in the tab is altering when the lever or pedal is engaged. Not everyone uses the same left leg/right leg raises/lowers on levers. That's probably why they didn't give a copedent.
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ETS S10, Fender Champion 6 string lap steel, Magnatone 6 string lap steel, Johnson Dobro, 1961 Fender Bassman, Fender Blues Jr., Fender Mustang III |
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Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 11 Feb 2014 8:24 pm
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| Apparently the book is using the terminology for levers that Jeff Newman used--he assigned the letter "D" to the lever that lowers the 4th & 8th strings 1/2 step. I guess his reasoning was that, after the three pedals--by common agreement labeled A, B, and C--the next change you would likely have, if you only had one more, would be the 4 & 8 lowers, so it should be next alphabetically, hence "D". Then, assuming the next additional change to have would be the 2nd string 1/2 step lower, it gets the designation "E"; and the next change, 4 & 8 raises, gets the designation "F", not because that's the note it raises to (that's just coincidence), but because it's "next" alphabetically in the "copedent-building" sequence after the above. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 11 Feb 2014 11:55 pm
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Even more confusingly, my old D10 when I got it had just one knee lever which appeared to be an update! It lowered 2 and 8, which I think was quite common in the early days.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Pete Nicholls
From:
Macon, Georgia, USA
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Posted 12 Feb 2014 6:32 am
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| Brint Hannay wrote: |
| Apparently the book is using the terminology for levers that Jeff Newman used--he assigned the letter "D" to the lever that lowers the 4th & 8th strings 1/2 step. I guess his reasoning was that, after the three pedals--by common agreement labeled A, B, and C--the next change you would likely have, if you only had one more, would be the 4 & 8 lowers, so it should be next alphabetically, hence "D". Then, assuming the next additional change to have would be the 2nd string 1/2 step lower, it gets the designation "E"; and the next change, 4 & 8 raises, gets the designation "F", not because that's the note it raises to (that's just coincidence), but because it's "next" alphabetically in the "copedent-building" sequence after the above. |
Thanks Brint, so if I make myself a little cross reference where d, e, and f = my LKL, LKR, etc, that should minimize my confusion.
_________________
Justice The Judge SD-10, 2007
Justice Pro Lite SD-10, 2011
Quilter Steelaire
Quilter Labs Tone Block 202 Head
Roland Cube 80-XL
American Stratocaster - Yamaha Bass Guitar
1 Fender Telecaster Nashville Edition
Ham Call: N4BHB |
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Pete Nicholls
From:
Macon, Georgia, USA
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Posted 12 Feb 2014 6:34 am
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Thanks for all the other replies as well!
_________________
Justice The Judge SD-10, 2007
Justice Pro Lite SD-10, 2011
Quilter Steelaire
Quilter Labs Tone Block 202 Head
Roland Cube 80-XL
American Stratocaster - Yamaha Bass Guitar
1 Fender Telecaster Nashville Edition
Ham Call: N4BHB |
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Scott Duckworth
From:
Etowah, TN Western Foothills of the Smokies
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Posted 12 Feb 2014 9:49 am
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Pete, how do you like the book overall? I'm thinking about ordering one.
_________________
Amateur Radio Operator NA4IT (Extra)
http://www.qsl.net/na4it
I may, in fact, be nuts. However, I am screwed onto the right bolt... Jesus! |
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Pete Nicholls
From:
Macon, Georgia, USA
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Posted 12 Feb 2014 10:26 am
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Well worth the 7.19 I paid for it at Amazon!!
_________________
Justice The Judge SD-10, 2007
Justice Pro Lite SD-10, 2011
Quilter Steelaire
Quilter Labs Tone Block 202 Head
Roland Cube 80-XL
American Stratocaster - Yamaha Bass Guitar
1 Fender Telecaster Nashville Edition
Ham Call: N4BHB |
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Scott Duckworth
From:
Etowah, TN Western Foothills of the Smokies
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Posted 12 Feb 2014 10:49 am
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Thanks Pete!
_________________
Amateur Radio Operator NA4IT (Extra)
http://www.qsl.net/na4it
I may, in fact, be nuts. However, I am screwed onto the right bolt... Jesus! |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 12 Feb 2014 12:08 pm
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The "e" in this tab is a half-step lower of the 2nd string, D# to D. It gives you the C note at the 10th fret.
The chord with the flats is a C diminished, 2nd inversion (Gb C Eb Gb).
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Ron Leegate
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 15 Aug 2014 1:21 am 8va
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8va means to play one octave higher than notated.
8ba means to play one octave lower than notated.
There also is 15va and 15ba which indicate two octave changes below and above respective. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 15 Aug 2014 8:15 am
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It's hard to believe that there is no copedent listed in the book to explain what knee lever he is talking about when he says E lever, D lever etc... I have never seen any book or tab that didn't. Although some tab doesn't refer to pedals and levers by letter, and just uses flat (b) or sharp (#) symbols after the fret number to indicate how many half steps up or down that the pedal or lever moves the string.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 15 Aug 2014 8:20 am
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| Richard, the sharp and flat at fret really needs adopted as a universal standard IMO. |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 15 Aug 2014 8:49 am
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| Tom Gorr wrote: |
| Richard, the sharp and flat at fret really needs adopted as a universal standard IMO. |
Too bad Jimmie Crawford's Musim-tab system never caught on. IMO it was the best tab system ever devised.
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 15 Aug 2014 12:23 pm
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Tom, I find the sharp and flat thing really confusing because I read music. In the E tuning there aren't really any flats except arguably in certain diminished chords, and when I see a sharp I'm likely to think "so what - it's sharp already". R for raise and L for lower cause me no confusion.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 15 Aug 2014 12:53 pm
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Surely, Ian, it wouldn't confuse if you saw it next to the fret number on tab?
I mean if you see "5##' on the 5th string line of a piece of tab, you'd know that means to add the A pedal, double-sharping the E note of a B string at the 5th fret.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Stuart Legg
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Posted 15 Aug 2014 2:48 pm
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Folks number and alphabetize things but the number and the letter serve no other purpose than a temporary label for their own use.
The first thing to learn is how your pedals and levers affect the strings.
Then when you see one of those labels on a certain string you know if you have a pedal or lever that affects that string and what options you have to raise or lower the pitch.
At this point by knowing your pedals and levers you can make a very good guess which option you should use and your ear should tell you if you selected wrong.
So once you get it right make a note of the authors labels and youΓ’β¬β’re all set.
Note: If a person would learn notation they would not have to guess about anything written within the tab. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 16 Aug 2014 6:10 am
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Lane, you're quite right, given some thinking time. But at reading speed a # next to a note which I know is already a sharp tells me "take no action" rather than "sharp it some more". I admit I am in a minority of people burdened with too much musical syntax. Still voting for R & L 
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 16 Aug 2014 8:56 am
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Good point, Ian.
Thinking it over, I can see how # and b can be ambiguous. Those symbols are already in use on the chord chart and sheet music. For example, 7# on the 4th string of tab gives you a C natural note. The letter names of pedals are also ambiguous: 7F is a C note and 8B is an F. Confusing!
That's a strong case for using R and RR (for raises) and L and LL (for lowers) in tab.
_________________
-πππ- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 16 Aug 2014 1:21 pm
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I have a book of tabs by Don Sulesky which uses A and B for the pedals, which helps you keep track of the lines on the page, then for the levers he just uses R and L. This seems a good compromise to me. It's hard to get lost or confused. I think all Ls and Rs would be a bit featureless, now I think about it. The As and Bs keep your bearings.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Dan Robinson
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 16 Aug 2014 6:17 pm
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| b0b wrote: |
The "e" in this tab is a half-step lower of the 2nd string, D# to D. It gives you the C note at the 10th fret.
The chord with the flats is a C diminished, 2nd inversion (Gb C Eb Gb). |
The Sho-Bud I got in 1973 originally had that change on RKR, then with more pressure it lowered #2 another half-step to C#. |
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Ron Pruter
From:
Arizona, USA
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Posted 16 Aug 2014 9:06 pm
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I wonder why he avoids sting 5 on the C dim. All notes are good but 1,7 and 9, if you are dropping 9 with your (e lever also)
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 16 Aug 2014 9:55 pm
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Maybe if you're using it to get from a I to a V7 you don't need the A - all I can think of.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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