Technique, Looking for a sound

Tavis Anderson · From: Rush City, Minnesota

Still relatively new to my "re-acquaintance" with steel, (2 1/2 years) I'm looking for a sound. I am having a heck of a time getting all of it.

Best described, it can be found in a John Conlee song. "Miss Emily's picture"....

2:30- 2:40 of the following link would be a great example of what I am trying to find. I can fade in and out no problem,,, but! I want it to sustain longer- such as the example in this clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0Lovkfu_l8

I might be at the point where I need an "effects box" to get what I am looking for now??

Thoughts?

Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dave Grafe · From: Hudson River Valley NY

No real effects there other than reverb, Tavis, and you should be able to get that from a decent spring tank, which hopefully your amp already has. Don't go spending money on stuff you don't need. If it's sustain you are after you will find it in bar pressure, volume pedal technique and picking the strings with verve and elan.

Steve Hinson · From: Hendersonville Tn USA

Jim Pitman · From: Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA

As far as the lick goes - E9, play the root with no pedals (I think it's in C) slide down two frets then actuate the first pedal, initially plucking strings 5 and 8 only. For a fuller sound throw in string 6.
That's a dramatic way to get a 2 minor.
Often it's hard to hear that there's really more than one note going on. The two can beat against each other extending sustain.

Mike Wheeler · From: Delaware, Ohio, USA

As to sustain, a lot of it comes from good volume pedal technique. IMHO the volume pedal should be at about 2/3rds on when normally picking, and then be slowly increased from there when needed...then quickly back to 2/3rds to pick more notes. Turn your amp up loud enough to allow the VP to be backed off as described.

It takes a bit of practice, but becomes natural with time. After a while you won't even have to think about it...it'll just happen.

Just remember...don't pump the pedal up and down. That sounds awful. Only use it to keep the loudness of the notes constant.
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Best regards,
Mike

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Good volume technique and keeping the amp HOT. If you can stay in the same room with your rig if you pick the strings hard with the volume pedal open, you don't have enough power to have sustain.
My pedal rarely goes over about half unless I'm sustaining decaying notes. I run Peaveys about master volume of 10 and pre gain of 4 or 5.
My Twin I run at about 5. I wouldn't want to be near it with full pedal.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Tavis Anderson · From: Rush City, Minnesota

Thanks for all the insight guys- I really do appreciate it.

Dave, I was wondering on that part of the reverb in my amp.
I play thru an older Lab5 and I think it needs some work.

I was curious on the album how much "magic" was worked in from the sound booth..... lol

Rick Myrland · From: New Orleans

And if you suddenly wonder where all that VP headroom went and your sustain has been cut in half, make sure your VP hasn't gently slid forward into the pedal rack as mine did over the weekend! For the life of me I could not figure out why I lost half my volume during Folsom Prison, where I do a really long droning train whistle, till I realized the top plate of my pedal was resting on the bottom bar of my pedal rack. Okay, NOW I know why some guys like VP mounts.
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Mullen G2; Fender Tone Master Twin Reverb; Goodrich L-120

Quentin Hickey · From: Nova Scotia, Canada

Lane. When you say running the amp hot do you mean drivong the preamp stage or post or just running both high in general.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Master Volume always maxed, and the preamp gain set at about 4 or 5.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Quentin Hickey · From: Nova Scotia, Canada

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

Tavis,

Listening to the clip with my producer's ears on, I hear a lot of very detailed production on all of the various instrumental fills, and the effect on the steel would have been put on long after the player was gone. On stage, as long as you do like the guys say and have plenty of volume range available, then a decent amount of sustain and reverb is all anyone would expect.

Sound comes from the hands in the first place.
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Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs

Tavis Anderson · From: Rush City, Minnesota

Thanks Ian.... I know the engineers can make wonders happen.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

I "max" the pre and post volumes on every amp I use. (Yes, even my Super-Twin Reverb.) However, I can still play bedroom-quiet when I want to. Cool

Turn the amp up, and learn to use the volume pedal, and you'll have gobs of sustain with pretty much any guitar or amp you're likely to use. Winking

Richard Tague · From: Cowden, Illinois, USA

As the "new kid on the block"...I have gathered a TON of info...just from this post. While I have shared the stage with many steelers over the years, I never realized their amp volume...only the could "hang in there" forever. NOW I know.

Headed downstairs to work on my VP technique..albeit witha little more juice coming from the tubes, this time! Very Happy

Thanks guy! Smile

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Ulrich Sinn · From: California, USA

How do you deal with bar noise when volume so high and pushing the volume pedal into the decay of the note?

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

With adequate pressure, there's very little bar scrape.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

James Sission · From: Sugar Land,Texas USA

Donny or Lane, are you using the amp settings for SS or tube amps or does it matter ??

Georg Sørtun · From: Mandal, Agder, Norway

Setting Master Volume at or near max and adjusting overall level at the pre-amp stage, makes even more sense with SS than with tube amps.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

James Sission · From: Sugar Land,Texas USA

Thanks Donny. I understand your comments as well. I have been around the Texas music scene about 45 years myself and never has anyone mentioned anything about the volume settings you and Lane suggested. Thats why I found it very interesting and I plan to try it myself this evening when I get back to town and have a chance to practice.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

James, at first, running everything "hot" will make the pedal seem overly sensitive to your foot movements. But with practice, it's easy to adjust to this, and you tend to use less foot movement. I'll never forget the first time I saw Chalker playing live. With all that "gutting" and explosive chord punches, I expected to see his foot working the volume like a bicycle pedal. Instead, his movements were small...sometimes barely noticable, but the effect was amazing. Very Happy

Fred Rushing · From: Odin, IL, USA

Travis, Your question seemed to ask, I want it to sustain and sound more like the recording. What has been said is all valid but remember this. I have been able to see and hear 40 years worth of live steel guitar music and much of it played by the best in the country. NONE of them get the sound live that is produced on the recording. It is all but impossible to get the sound from your guitar live that is reproduced in the studio. Some will disagree but that has been my experience. The recording studio can make a note sustain for ever, it's very hard to do that live. The most important thing you can do with that VP is keep your level consistant. JMO
Fred

Tavis Anderson · From: Rush City, Minnesota

Thanks Fred and all the others.

Something I have learned is I spend too much time trying to replicate what I hear on a recording or even a live version. It took me awhile to learn that sometimes a backing track of certain instruments is played during the show, then I ask myself "how in the heck does the steel player cover so much ground?" I know I tend to bite off more than I can chew at once, but the things I have learned in tis thread are definitely helping.

All I know is when I hit the licks and chords I am looking for, the massive shivers I get down my spine is part of what I am looking for. I just have to learn to hit them more often.lol

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