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Topic: Practicing |
Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 8 Feb 2014 8:20 pm |
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I read in another thread a comment attributed to Jerry Byrd that said, "If you want to play like me, practice 8 hours a day for 40 years."
There is so much truth in what he said, but we have to understand that Jerry was playing for his life (livelihood)--not many of us are doing that in this day and age. Personally, I still approach practicing with deep devotion and I put as much time into it as I can. I go to sleep at night feeling content that I have made every effort to learn more and become a better musician.
I would say I put in on average 3 hours per day on my instrument. I no longer really play guitar, so all my focus is on creating music with my steel. A lot of it lately has been getting to know my new tunings and dealing with the extra strings, but mostly what I am doing is discovering my own voice and working on creating the right setting for my steel playing.
I'd like to share another practice technique that I learned years ago from Joe Diorio, a great jazz guitarist and teacher. Joe found great inspiration in a book called Drawing On The Right Side Of The Brain, which discusses the functions of the left and right hemispheres of the brain and the connection to creativity. He uses what he calls "gesturing", which he defined as:
"Gesture improvising, all day. Letting go, feeling your way up and down the neck, checking out the possibilities. This usually starts out being abstract and works its way into more melodic playing. Plus the bonus of creating new ideas for future use. Maybe a new melody or a new chord progression. Here the basic idea is to shut off the thinking process and let your fingers and your feeling or intuition take over. Doing this all day gives us plenty of time to really get the idea of the exercise."
This is really a great technique for building a greater freedom to take chances outside of the box, so to speak. Not everyone will have the same results, but if you practice playing in time, without any harmonic framework, you will be amazed at some of the great chromatic ideas you can come up with. Rhythmic phrasing plays such a huge role in the success of improvised lines, and really makes the saying "it's not what you play, but how you play it" really true.
Joe talks about and demonstrates gesture improvising here: http://youtu.be/lRFSyman5Sk?t=5m4s
Unfortunately, you'll have to listen to Joe underneath the Russian translation, but he has a Yogi Berra type delivery and is fun to listen to.
This is quite challenging, but immensely rewarding. I will say that I spent almost an hour a day just gesturing and playing free.
Another thing I will do is pick a melody, say a Charlie Parker head, and just play all the notes in Bird's rhythms, but completely replace all of the notes, making the lines move in opposite directions of the original, and things like that. Again, I find it to be a useful exercise.
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Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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David Matzenik
From:
Cairns, on the Coral Sea
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Posted 8 Feb 2014 9:16 pm
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Without wishing to change the main thrust of your thread, Mike, another perspective on JBs ability was that he developed as a musician in step with, and contributing to, some of the defining moments of Western popular music. He must have been aware of this and have been inspired watching and listening to what was happening around him. I am not sure we have that amount of uncharted territory anymore.
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Don't go in the water after lunch. You'll get a cramp and drown. - Mother. |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Posted 8 Feb 2014 9:32 pm
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| Quote: |
| Jerry Byrd that said, "If you want to play like me, practice 8 hours a day for 40 years." |
Very true, but it's important to note that players like Jerry Byrd, Buddy Emmons, and Santo Farina were excellent players when they were only 20 years old, and their recordings from the early days prove that. Not to diminish the value of practice, but guys like JB have so much natural ability to begin with, they would gain much more from their practice time than the average player . And I'll bet the three aforementioned players put in thousands of hours of practice before age 20.
Also, gigs were plentiful in the 1950s, 60s, 70s. Even a mediocre musician could play 5 nights a week in house bands that were in every city and many towns across the country. I got in on the tail end of that era, playing 7 nights a week from 1978 until 1986. That's how players honed their skills back them. Today there are not nearly as many opportunities to play live.
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My Site / My YouTube Channel
25 Songs C6 Lap Steel / 25 MORE Songs C6 Lap Steel / 16 Songs, C6, A6, B11 / 60 Popular Melodies E9 Pedal Steel |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 8 Feb 2014 9:32 pm
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It all depends on your listening habits, David. As I've probably said 100 times, right now there is so much incredible new music being made with no creative boundaries. I realize it falls outside of the taste of 98% of the steel players I know of, but there are young (well, younger than me) musicians out there who are incredible on every level, and every one of them has put in some serious practice time.
The mundane practice rituals that every other musician goes through someone seem to get skipped over by steel players. We steel players just want to jump right in and start playing to our favorite records. I think us non-pedal players have to raise the bar a bit for prosperity and be all we can be. 
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Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 8 Feb 2014 9:42 pm
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| Doug Beaumier wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Jerry Byrd that said, "If you want to play like me, practice 8 hours a day for 40 years." |
Very true, but it's important to note that players like Jerry Byrd, Buddy Emmons, and Santo Farina were excellent players when they were only 20 years old, and their recordings from the early days prove that. Not to diminish the value of practice, but guys like JB have so much natural ability to begin with, they would gain much more from their practice time than the average player . And I'll bet the three aforementioned players put in thousands of hours of practice before age 20.
Also, gigs were plentiful in the 1950s, 60s, 70s. Even a mediocre musician could play 5 nights a week in house bands that were in every city and many towns across the country. I got in on the tail end of that era, playing 7 nights a week from 1978 until 1986. That's how players honed their skills back them. Today there are not nearly as many opportunities to play live. |
Doug, most new players on this instrument who are serious about it have put in much time in music. I know I've had easily tens of thousands of guitar hours, and much before I was 20. I'm not lying to you when I tell you I was a 16 year old kid playing guitar in groups on TV with guys twice my age--I was precocious. But for me on steel guitar it is too late to get where I want to go, so, I just enjoy what I can and try to create music that I like.
JB, Emmons, Santo, Jules, they are all great steel players and musicians--I know there will be players who will come along and add to that continuum. They will make bold statements with the instrument, but it will be of little resemblance to the past, although I know that respect will be there. Music has changed and we should expect that steel playing will change, too. At least I hope so!
Another thing to think about: most of these guys are just heroes to other steel players, or the few enlightened who are familiar with them. A guy like Robert Randolph comes along and he is loved by many who know nothing about steel, while steel players are 50/50 on him.
For young players, I think it is great to seek advice and build a camaraderie with other experienced steel players, but take what you can and run with it.
Anyway, time for a little more practice. My wife always asks, "What are practicing for, you're not going anywhere!" Makes me laugh every time and reminds me of my father when I was a kid.
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Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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David Matzenik
From:
Cairns, on the Coral Sea
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Posted 8 Feb 2014 11:25 pm
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Mike, I am ready for some of that incredible new music. Maybe a link or suggested listening list might help.
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Don't go in the water after lunch. You'll get a cramp and drown. - Mother. |
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John Mulligan
From:
Ontario, Canada
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Posted 9 Feb 2014 8:49 am
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| It's a valid question. What ARE you practicing for? Are you recording, playing gigs, or what? I find that endless practice, without any goal other than improving, sometimes hits a wall. Having a jam session coming up really sharpens my practicing. Just the other day I did what you describe here where I quit practicing anything and just played around on the instrument. It was very refreshing. To me, though, practice for its own sake tends to get sterile and eventually frustrating. |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 9 Feb 2014 10:47 am
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I don't think any musician ever practices without some goal. Most of all, I practice because I have my own visions of how I want to sound. But here are some other reasons:
I practice to have complete freedom on my instrument in my tunings. I practice because I want to be able to play solo, with no accompaniment. I also practice to get ideas for compositions. While my music is not completely steel guitar-centric, I want it to sound natural on the instrument. I also practice to better my expression and to develop new techniques. If I had 8 hours/day to spend with my ax, I could think of a lot of things to do.
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Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Jim Smerk
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 9 Feb 2014 10:53 am
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On the Lap Steel I am a rank beginner, even tho I have practiced for the last year or so on a Rogue. Since getting the SX2 I have been able to get in at least a couple hours a day of productive practice.
I was a pro drummer for 40 years, 4 to 7 nights a week, until Mr Arthur got too bad. For the last 10 years I have done remote productions for folks all over the world, mixing, laying down bass & guitar tracks, creating drum parts. And in my area there are no real pickers to speak of, a lot of jammers but after an hour they are getting too sloshed to play.
Between Mr Wright's videos on the Sierra site & Mr. Beaumier fantastic books I have been able to improve a 100 fold from where I was just a few months ago....as a matter of fact I just did my first "gig" of 5 songs this morning for a service. Did I do great, not even close! Did I do OK, not really, but it was passable & I enjoyed myself.
I am practicing on this instrument as many hours as I can for the love of playing music again, and if it is for recording, performance, or just my 4 walls, that is good enough for me.
And with this great forum I am sure I have no where to go but up!   |
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Tony Lombardo
From:
Alabama, USA
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Posted 9 Feb 2014 7:14 pm
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| "If you want to play like me, practice 8 hours a day for 40 years." -- It's a provocative sentence in many ways, but it doesn't really apply to me, because I don't want to play like Jerry Byrd. I don't want to play like any other musician. I want to play like me--but a much better version of me. |
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Chris Templeton
From:
The Green Mountain State
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Posted 9 Feb 2014 7:49 pm
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Mike, you expressed the joy that practicing gives you very well and Doug, you are so right about major incentives for practicing: Gigs and honing one's skills.
I remember a time when you could easily find a place to sit in. I've done that in many parts of this country and Canada as well. Often, if the sit in was for an evening the band or the club owner would pay you too. I don't think there's very much opportunity to do this anymore.
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Excel 3/4 Pedal With An 8 String Hawaiian Neck, Sierra Tapper (10 string with a raised fretboard to fret with fingers), Single neck Fessenden 3/5
"The Tapper" : https://christophertempleton.bandcamp.com/album/the-tapper
Soundcloud Playlist: https://soundcloud.com/bluespruce8: |
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Sam White R.I.P.
From:
Coventry, RI 02816
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Posted 10 Feb 2014 5:56 am
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Hey Guys if I had to sit and practice for 8 hours a day and for 40 years I would never make it as I have'nt. It would drive me nuts to sit that long ever day and I would be 117 years old if I started again now.I guess I'm in the over the hill gang.
Sam White
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Dynalap lap 8 String Lap Steel Fender frontman 25B speaker changed Boss TU-12H Tuner.Founder and supporter of the Rhode Island Steel Guitar Association Founder of the New England Steel Guitar Association and the Greeneville TN Steel Jams and now founder of the North Carolina Steel Guitar Jams. Honorary member of the Rhode Island Steel Guitar Association,Member of The New England Steel Guitar Association.
Member of the Florida Steel Guitar Club,and member of Mid Atlantic Steel Guitar Association |
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Dom Franco
From:
Beaverton, OR, 97007
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Posted 10 Feb 2014 7:46 am
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| Quote: |
[quote="Mike Neer"]I don't think any musician ever practices without some goal. Most of all, I practice because I have my own visions of how I want to sound. But here are some other reasons:
I practice to have complete freedom on my instrument in my tunings. I practice because I want to be able to play solo, with no accompaniment. I also practice to get ideas for compositions. quote] |
This thread makes me want to get off the computer and practice... but not until I Post!
Mike: I really like what you said about playing "solo" without accompaniment... This has been my goal ever since I discovered that all musicians are crazy.
The steel guitar is rarely heard alone, partly because it is more difficult to carry a rhythm and melody simultaneously like a piano or armpit guitar.
With this goal in mind I worked for years developing a 12 string tuning that would give me all the chords needed to play any song, with full chord melody (complete triads or 4 note chords)
I came very close, though there are still sections where I have to drop to 2 note runs or even single string lines at faster tempos.
All this being said; It is very complicated, and requires tons of practice to work out a single song this way.
I simply don't have the time to work out and memorize arrangements with full chord/melody for all of my songs. Although it is a great exercise and I am not giving up.
So now my practice mostly consists of learning songs to the point that I don't need chord/lyric sheets to perform them live, and keeping up my chops for improvisation.
I am going to practice now...
Dom
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https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYG9cvwCPKuXpGofziPNieA/feed?activity_view=3 |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 10 Feb 2014 8:02 am
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| Dom Franco wrote: |
This thread makes me want to get off the computer and practice... but not until I Post!
Mike: I really like what you said about playing "solo" without accompaniment... This has been my goal ever since I discovered that all musicians are crazy.
The steel guitar is rarely heard alone, partly because it is more difficult to carry a rhythm and melody simultaneously like a piano or armpit guitar.
With this goal in mind I worked for years developing a 12 string tuning that would give me all the chords needed to play any song, with full chord melody (complete triads or 4 note chords)
I came very close, though there are still sections where I have to drop to 2 note runs or even single string lines at faster tempos.
All this being said; It is very complicated, and requires tons of practice to work out a single song this way.
I simply don't have the time to work out and memorize arrangements with full chord/melody for all of my songs. Although it is a great exercise and I am not giving up.
So now my practice mostly consists of learning songs to the point that I don't need chord/lyric sheets to perform them live, and keeping up my chops for improvisation.
I am going to practice now...
Dom |
Dom, Susan Alcorn has been my biggest inspiration for playing unaccompanied. She's the best at it, as far as I'm concerned. And yes, musicians are crazy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2hxIsuaXxo
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Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Posted 11 Feb 2014 5:16 am
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[quote="Dom Franco"]
| Quote: |
| Mike Neer wrote: |
I don't think any musician ever practices without some goal. Most of all, I practice because I have my own visions of how I want to sound. But here are some other reasons:
I practice to have complete freedom on my instrument in my tunings. I practice because I want to be able to play solo, with no accompaniment. I also practice to get ideas for compositions. quote] |
This thread makes me want to get off the computer and practice... but not until I Post!
Mike: I really like what you said about playing "solo" without accompaniment... This has been my goal ever since I discovered that all musicians are crazy.
The steel guitar is rarely heard alone, partly because it is more difficult to carry a rhythm and melody simultaneously like a piano or armpit guitar.
With this goal in mind I worked for years developing a 12 string tuning that would give me all the chords needed to play any song, with full chord melody (complete triads or 4 note chords)
I came very close, though there are still sections where I have to drop to 2 note runs or even single string lines at faster tempos.
All this being said; It is very complicated, and requires tons of practice to work out a single song this way.
I simply don't have the time to work out and memorize arrangements with full chord/melody for all of my songs. Although it is a great exercise and I am not giving up.
So now my practice mostly consists of learning songs to the point that I don't need chord/lyric sheets to perform them live, and keeping up my chops for improvisation.
I am going to practice now...
Dom |
What 12 string tuning do you use Dom. I use an extended Em13 |
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James Hartman
From:
Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 12 Feb 2014 7:26 am
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| Mike Neer wrote: |
Dom, Susan Alcorn has been my biggest inspiration for playing unaccompanied. She's the best at it, as far as I'm concerned. And yes, musicians are crazy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2hxIsuaXxo |
FYI, anyone in the NJ area, Susan Alcorn is performing next tuesday (with a string qt.) at Princeton U.
Tuesday, February 18th, 2014 at 8:00pm
Taplin Auditorium in Fine Hall
Princeton University, Princeton, NJ
PRINCETON SOUND KITCHEN
Dan Trueman, Director
Michael Pratt, Resident Conductor
presents
DITHER GUITAR QUARTET
MIVOS STRING QUARTET
YUMI TAMASHIRO, marimba
IAN ROSENBAUM, marimba
SUSAN ALCORN, pedal steel guitar
SIGAN MAGEN, harp |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 12 Feb 2014 7:29 am
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I plan on being there, James.
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Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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James Hartman
From:
Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 12 Feb 2014 7:57 am
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| Mike Neer wrote: |
| I plan on being there, James. |
I'm hoping to make it, circumstances permitting. It's about an hour and a half drive for me.
And, by the way, thanks. I was unfamiliar with Ms. Alcorn until reading your prior post and following the youtube link. Amazing player. |
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Mark Roeder
From:
Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 12 Feb 2014 11:55 am
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Huge topic Mike, it is great to hear how other players approach it.
Enjoyment is a comon thread in both the player who devotes 3 hours a day or the one who devotes 3 a week.
IMHO 8 hours a day is something that you would work up to (if you have the time) like a marathon runner works up to their distance.
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https://www.facebook.com/TheBestWesterns |
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Nate Hofer
From:
Overland Park, Kansas
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Posted 16 Feb 2014 11:15 am
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Great topic, Mike and everyone.
I remember being turned on to Susan Alcorn by Eugene Chadbourn. I played with him a couple times and he had played with Alcorn and recommended I take a listen to her. That was about 14 years ago and NOW thanks to you all I've started listening to her in ernest.
Also, if you're interested, I have a new blog post here on how simple recording software helps me practice.
http://woodshedsteel.wordpress.com/2014/02/16/how-software-helps-me-practice-everyday/ |
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Dom Franco
From:
Beaverton, OR, 97007
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Posted 16 Feb 2014 11:07 pm
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Back on the topic of practicing...
Here are a few questions I have that maybe some of you would care to answer:
1. Do you practice whole songs start to finish, or do you just woodshed the hard parts? (fast licks, slants, etc.)
2. Do you memorize your songs, or use tablature or chord sheets? 2A____when practicing? 2B____when performing?
3. Do you strive to play your worked out parts perfectly the same every time, or do you improvise around the melody/fills/solos?
4. Do you use a metronome/drum machine to practice timing?
5. Do you ever change the key of the song to allow the use of open strings for certain fast licks?
I will answer the questions in a separate reply post...
Dom
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