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Topic: where do you put your e's |
Scott Appleton
From: Ashland, Oregon
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Posted 3 Feb 2014 11:00 am
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Some like there E's on one knee ether right or left .. Jeff Newman told me once at a steel guitar seminar on my Uni to put the E to F on the left right and the E to Eb on the right left .. that way you can transition from one change to the other cleanly.
What do you all think .. |
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Dave Hopping
From: Aurora, Colorado
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Posted 3 Feb 2014 11:22 am
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All my guitars have the E half-step lower on RKL,and the half-step raise on LKL. |
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Dave Mudgett
From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 3 Feb 2014 11:37 am
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You should first read this thread - http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/007769.html
This has been discussed a lot over the years since then. Someone usually winds up just pointing to that thread anyway. I don't think anybody could sum up better the philosophies behind each approach (E's both on left vs., e.g., E=>F on left, E=>Eb on right) better than Buddy Emmons and Paul Franklin. More recent threads - http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=213364 or here - http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=160728 - and there are lots more.
I personally raise E to F on LKL, lower E to Eb on RKL. I started with both E's on the left, and after reading that original thread, I switched my setup around and tried every which way for a period. Ultimately, Paul's approach and reasoning seemed to work best for me (and that's the strongest argument I'd even begin to try to make for this approach). Finally, I should note that I play a 12-string E9/B6 universal sometimes and a D-10 sometimes, and I think E=>Eb lower on the right knee is a bit easier to rationalize for the universal. Still, I think it's worth playing around with this particular setup feature a bit. I actually had to mess around with this for a while before I really could draw a conclusion for myself. |
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Lyle Clary
From: Decatur, Illinois, KC9VCB
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Posted 3 Feb 2014 12:07 pm
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I played Day set up for 35 years with the E - E flat LKL. I did not have E - F. When I got my Zum D10 it was set up Emmons and I learned to play all over again. The E lower was on the RKL and the E - F was on the LKL which I find really convenient. When I ordered my new Zum Encore I had Doug mirror the E9th of my D10 except had the Franklin pedal in the 0 position at Doug's suggestion. _________________ 2006 Zum D10 8x8,1969 ZB Custom D10,
10 3x4 Peavey Nashville 112 Peavey LTD 400 2014 Zum Encore Wood Grain 4x5 Stage One pot pedal |
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Tom Gorr
From: Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 3 Feb 2014 12:21 pm
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I play Emmons pedals, LKL is E--F, but my E--Eb is RKR.
I used to play the old style MSA copedent with both E's on the RIGHT leg. That also made a lot of sense...as all of the non-E string pulls on LK could be used with either E raise or E lower.
Anybody want to discuss the drivers between E--Eb on the RKL vs. RKR ? |
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chris ivey
From: california (deceased)
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Posted 3 Feb 2014 12:36 pm Re: where do you put your e's
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Scott Appleton wrote: |
Some like there E's on one knee ether right or left .. Jeff Newman told me once at a steel guitar seminar on my Uni to put the E to F on the left right and the E to Eb on the right left .. that way you can transition from one change to the other cleanly.
What do you all think .. |
that's interesting. i never heard that about jeff, but that's how mine have always been. |
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Wesley Medlen
From: LaCygne,Ks
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Posted 3 Feb 2014 3:34 pm
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I like mine on the left LKL E-F LKR E-D# That let's me make arun down from 4-5-6 LKV to LKR to AB down when appropiate _________________ Justice S10 Jr, Gibson Electra 6string, Boss Katana 100, Steelers Choice ,Gretsch 6 string lap, Hilton VP |
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Darvin Willhoite
From: Roxton, Tx. USA
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Posted 3 Feb 2014 7:44 pm
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I lower the E's on my RKR and raise them on the LKR. My first steel was set up with the RKR like that, and I didn't raise the E's to F until I had been playing several years. The LKR just seemed like a good place to put it. Works for me. _________________ Darvin Willhoite
MSA Millennium, Legend, and Studio Pro, Reese's restored Universal Direction guitar, a restored MSA Classic SS, several amps, new and old, and a Kemper Powerhead that I am really liking. Also a Zum D10, a Mullen RP, and a restored Rose S10, named the "Blue Bird". Also, I have acquired and restored the plexiglass D10 MSA Classic that was built as a demo in the early '70s. I also have a '74 lacquer P/P, with wood necks, and a showroom condition Sho-Bud Super Pro. |
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Henry Matthews
From: Texarkana, Ark USA
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Posted 3 Feb 2014 9:37 pm
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I put mine on left knee since to me they are probably the most used knee lever, so they won't interfere with my volume pedal. _________________ Henry Matthews
D-10 Magnum, 8 &5, dark rose color
D-10 1974 Emmons cut tail, fat back,rosewood, 8&5
Nashville 112 amp, Fishman Loudbox Performer amp, Hilton pedal, Goodrich pedal,BJS bar, Kyser picks, Live steel Strings. No effects, doodads or stomp boxes. |
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Skip Edwards
From: LA,CA
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Posted 3 Feb 2014 10:39 pm
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My take on this one...
I'm an advocate of having your E levers on your left leg.
You pretty much want to be able to use your E raise and lower levers in different ways in combination with your other 2 levers... that is, one KL raising string 1 a whole step, along with string 2 a half, as well as lowering your 6th a whole, or raising your 7th a whole (whichever you prefer)....and one lever lowering string 2 a whole step and dropping string 9 a half.
If you split your E levers between two legs, you lose the advantages of having those combinations.
The rationale for having your E levers on your left leg - at least the way I see it - is when you have a vertical lever on your left leg that lowers your B's a half step, you get to use that vertical in combinations with that lever that raises 1 & 2 (which is very cool), as well as the lever that lowers 2 & 9.
JMHO... |
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Wayne Neal
From: Ohio, USA
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Posted 3 Feb 2014 10:58 pm
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I like em on the left.(emmons)...like was said in the last 2 posts. _________________ D10 Carter, b-bender Tele, Electric Fiddle & Mandolin, Peavey Stereo Chorus 400 BW1203's, Peavey Special 130 Ken Fox mod BW1203. |
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Bill Bertinot
From: Burlington Ky
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Posted 3 Feb 2014 11:08 pm E levers
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For example; I like the E raises on LKL, and E lowers on RKL 'cause one of my favorite combos is to lower the E's while pressing AB and vertical knee. Great for diminished chords and runs. _________________ Showpro, Nashville 1000 |
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Dale Rottacker
From: Walla Walla Washington, USA
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Posted 4 Feb 2014 1:52 am
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Dave Mudgett wrote: |
You should first read this thread - http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/007769.html
This has been discussed a lot over the years since then. Someone usually winds up just pointing to that thread anyway. I don't think anybody could sum up better the philosophies behind each approach (E's both on left vs., e.g., E=>F on left, E=>Eb on right) better than Buddy Emmons and Paul Franklin. More recent threads - http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=213364 or here - http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=160728 - and there are lots more.
I personally raise E to F on LKL, lower E to Eb on RKL. I started with both E's on the left, and after reading that original thread, I switched my setup around and tried every which way for a period
Ultimately, Paul's approach and reasoning seemed to work best
for me (and that's the strongest argument I'd even begin to try to make for this approach). Finally, I should note that I play a 12-string E9/B6 universal sometimes and a D-10 sometimes, and I think E=>Eb lower on the right knee is a bit easier to rationalize for the universal. Still, I think it's worth playing around with this particular setup feature a bit. I actually had to mess around with this for a while before I really could draw a conclusion for myself. |
Dave I'm not sure what I learned here tonight, it being a slow night at work gave me a chance to read this entire tread...but this might be the best most thread I've ever read here...the back and forth between Buddy and Paul was priceless....getting to hear their well thought out explanations is good food for thought....Personally I started out RKL to lower the E's and then seeing that the popular place seemed to be with both raise and lower on the left knee I moved it...that being said, I've never been totally happy with that slow transition that Paul was talking about doing the full bend...setting the knees closer caused problems of their own because if I'm not playing real close attention, I find myself leaning on one a little...who knows, after all these years I may move that E lower back to the RKL, and yet with some of the new modern changes how will that impact those...much to think about and analyze...it's all compromise and trade offs isn't it. _________________ Dale Rottacker, Steelinatune™
https://www.youtube.com/@steelinatune
*2021 MSA Legend, "Jolly Rancher" D10 10x9
*2021 Rittenberry, "The Concord" D10 9x9
*1977 Blue Sho-Bud Pro 3 Custom 8x6
https://msapedalsteels.com
http://rittenberrysteelguitars.com
https://www.telonics.com/index.php
https://www.p2pamps.com
https://www.quilterlabs.com
Last edited by Dale Rottacker on 4 Feb 2014 7:01 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Dale Rottacker
From: Walla Walla Washington, USA
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John De Maille
From: On a Mountain in Upstate Halcottsville, N.Y.
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Posted 4 Feb 2014 7:02 am
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E-F on LKL
E-Eb on RKR
Been using it for 30+ yrs. Works fine for me. |
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Georg Sørtun
From: Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 4 Feb 2014 7:46 am
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My "norm" is E>F on LKL and E>Eb on LKR, as I often combine E>Eb (LKR) with G#>F# on RKL and I can't find a better way to get that combo.
OTOH, on one of my "lab-rats" I have E>F# on LKV, which in combination with E>Eb on LKR produces a perfect F. I found that going seamless between E, F, F# and Eb, and combine any of these E changes with G#>F# on RKL and/or pedal A & B, wasn't very hard when I had full movement in my left leg.
Right now, as my left leg is healing from removal of blood-clots (and more) and I can't play at all, I am not so sure how well these complex pedal/lever combos will work. |
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Brett Lanier
From: Madison, TN
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Posted 4 Feb 2014 8:25 am
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Franklin's setup makes a lot of sense having them on opposite sides while having the 2nd string lower on the opposite side as the E lowers. I've had it both ways, a couple of times... I've had them both on the left for a while now though. It makes the most sense since I don't lower the fourth string. |
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Tom Gorr
From: Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 4 Feb 2014 8:36 am
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Georg Sørtun wrote: |
My "norm" is E>F on LKL and E>Eb on LKR, as I often combine E>Eb (LKR) with G#>F# on RKL and I can't find a better way to get that combo.
OTOH, on one of my "lab-rats" I have E>F# on LKV, which in combination with E>Eb on LKR produces a perfect F. I found that going seamless between E, F, F# and Eb, and combine any of these E changes with G#>F# on RKL and/or pedal A & B, wasn't very hard when I had full movement in my left leg.
Right now, as my left leg is healing from removal of blood-clots (and more) and I can't play at all, I am not so sure how well these complex pedal/lever combos will work. |
That's an innovative yet common sense idea. That would free up a knee lever for some folks.
Last edited by Tom Gorr on 4 Feb 2014 8:48 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Ian Rae
From: Redditch, England
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Posted 4 Feb 2014 8:40 am
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When I acquired my pull-release D10, which is maybe 50 years old, it had Day setup and just one knee lever, E-D# at LKL. This worked well with the B pedal for the 7th chord. I updated it by adding E-F on LKR and got quite used to it that way. Later I added right knees to raise 7 and lower 9.
When I rebuilt the underside, in order to prepare myself for maybe playing a universal, I swapped it all over (RKL-D#, RKR-F) and it took very little time to get used to. Crucially, I didn't find that it interfered with the volume pedal, which seems to worry some people.
I can quite see how it would be nice to be able to bend the 3 note in the A/F chord down a tone smoothly like you can in the pedals-up and pedals-down positions. But with both Es on the same leg, when you're in a B6 position (with D# engaged) you have both the S7 and S9 changes available on the other. (That's not to say I might not try splitting the Es at some point, but right now I'm enjoying playing too much to want to take it all to bits again.)
In the end, I guess it depends what music you're required to play and what personal stamp you're trying to put on it. _________________ Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Dick Wood
From: Springtown Texas, USA
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Posted 4 Feb 2014 9:12 am
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I played with E-Eb for 16 years on the LKR and then one day I switched them to the RKL and it only took a short period to re-adjust so it's all what you get used to. _________________ Cops aren't paid much so I steel at night. |
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John Scanlon
From: Jackson, Mississippi, USA
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Posted 4 Feb 2014 12:52 pm
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Another left-knee-E guy here - basically because 1) that was the way my fixed-copendent, starter guitar came, and 2) that was the way most instructional material assumed your setup was. My next and current guitar is not a fixed copedent, but has half-stops on the right knee, both directions, so I didn't see a need to move them over. Not too late to change, but I doubt I will. _________________ Click here for the Index to Mickey Adams's YouTube video lessons
Insert impressive gear list here. |
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Lee Dassow
From: Jefferson, Georgia USA
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Posted 10 Feb 2014 8:03 pm
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E's on the left on my steels. Tennessee Lee _________________ 2015 Mullen D-10 Royal Precision 9x8,-1990 BMI S-10 5x5-1972 Silver face Fender pro Reverb amp,-1965 Fender Super Reverb Amp,- 1966 Fender Showman Amp Two 15" JBL speakers,- 2006 65 Fender Twin Reverb reissue Amp,- 1982 Peavey Session 500 amp,-1978 Peavey Session 400,Goodrich Volume Pedals,John Pearse Steel Bars, |
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